Torah values are NOT Chicago values!

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ya I heard all about that, and as a proud chicagoan, I felt very disappointed with that.

According to Wikpedia, Emanuel belongs to a MO congregation in Chicago. It’s strange and unfortunate that his connection with traditional Judaism would not make him more respectful of other positions on gay marriage.

It’s also bizarre that he would try to ban a business from a city because he has the same political opinion that OBAMA HIMSELF had until a few months ago.

Anyway, he should know that according to current First Amendment jurisprudence, it is *definitely* a violation of someone’s constitutional rights to deny them a permit for a business because of that person’s religious or political views.

So the whole gay marriage thing has reached witch-hunt proportions. Maybe this is a message from Hashem that we should be looking into aliyah? It just became a little harder to raise a child to be a proud Torah Jew in the US (now that the inability for gays to marry under Orthodox Judaism will probably be denounced as some kind of crime against humanity).

Maybe my comment here belongs in a different thread, but it is tangentially related here because of what the mayor of Chicago wishes to do.

The gay rights groups, in order to push their agenda, have always claimed that they don’t want to force others to share their beliefs. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. All they claimed to want is to protect their rights and not to be discriminated against. We always said that this was not true and that it is a slippery slope. Well, we just started sliding down that slope a little further.

Mayor Emanuel, and others, now want to prohibit Chick-fil-A from even opening up and conducting business in their cities, just because the owner may have an OPINION which is not illegal to have, but doesn’t comport with their political correctness. No one claims that Chick-fil-A ever discriminated against customers, employess or potential employees because of their sexual orientation. They want to close down the business just because the owner has an opinion that they don’t share.

I guess if you disagree with the Left, then you just don’t deserve to make a living – or maybe even to live! But if we were to take similar actions against someone on the Left for his political correctness, they would immediately label us as homophobic racists!

Hakohen, good point. The crazy thing is that at least half the country opposes gay marriage. So according to Rahm Emmanuel, none of those 100 million people should be able to open a business in Chicago if they are open about their political position on gay marriage. Unbelievable. This wouldn’t have happened if Obama hadn’t come out in favor.

In Israel, the gay marriage debate will never get to this level — no prime minister would ever say you’re not welcome in my city if you’re not in favor of gay marriage, because they know that a large and growing segment of the population has traditional beliefs and is not going to change their minds. In the US, by contrast, gay rights supporters believe that public acceptance of gay marriage is inevitable.

This is a serious argument for aliyah. Orthodox Jews growing up in the US who come in contact with mainstream culture will, at least in some cases, be ashamed of their religion because it doesn’t fit with the nearly-mandatory pro-toevah views, and abandon Orthodoxy in order to not be considered “hateful” and “backward.” This will never be anywhere near as big of a problem in Israel.

dd – The fact that your opinion is what it is, is the strongest reason why the “pride” filth is opposed so strongly. Desensitization. The fact that you don’t view it as disgusting to the point of not wanting to think about it reveals how society has taken its toll on your sensitivity for right and wrong. Saying those who are against it the most have psychological netias towards it is a pathetic idea used by the baalei toeivas themselves and their supporters to suppress those who oppose them. You should really rethink your position.

“Yytz they’re having a toeiva parade in Jerusalem right now. Yimach shemum v’zichrum, Amen!”

I’ve heard that we are not supposed to use this expression about fellow Jews no matter how low they have become. This is especially while they are still alive when we daven they still do Teshuva.

With the exception of Shabesai Zvi and Oso Ha’ish

The Torah doesn’t say anything about gay marriage. The Torah assurs and condemns certain activities that gays do. But I don’t understand why we can’t treat gays in our communities simply as people who have a strong ta’aveh that most of us don’t have, and who give in to this ta’aveh.

So the same arguments can be made for those who would be unfaithful to their spouses. And further down the slippery slope (actually not necessarily further down), there would be tolerance for bestiality, incest and child molestation. After all, they’re just giving in to their tayvos.

(Of course, as I’ve said many times, one who has the tayva and does not give in to it will be getting a portion of olam haba that makes me jealous. But the fact that there are people who feel that way doesn’t mean we have to bend over backwards to accommodate twisted marriage.)

On the ball:

The word “toeiva” here isn’t used to describe a specific Jew (and we do hope they will all do teshuva). It’s used to describe a lifestyle.

It’s the word that writers (perhaps in consultation with gedolim) have been using in frum periodicals and websites to avoid using the words used g__ and homo______. I personally am not comfortable using those words as well.

BTW, I completely agree with HaKohen53’s point that Emanuel has no business interfering with a business based on the owner’s stated opinion about a controversial issue. And the left is particularly hypocritical about championing the freedom of expression while simultaneously trying to limit that freedom for anyone on the right.

By the same token, we Jews benefit from the freedom that society has given us. There are no doubt Christians who feel that our rejection of their messiah is offensive. But we would rightly scream antisemitism if anyone tried to stop us from publicly practicing or celebrating our religion. So it is hypocritical when frum Jews try to deny rights to gays. Being in a free society cuts both ways.

dd: Again, MOST AMERICANS oppose sodomy marriage. 32 States had votes. Sodomy marriage lost in ALL 32 States that held public referendums. We Jews should at least be as opposed to this travesty as non-Jewish Americans clearly are.

Additionally, sodomy is worse than avoda zora. The Gemora says Hashem didn’t destroy the goyim because they didn’t institute civil marriage for sodomites. Even though they did practive avoda zora, he didn’t destroy them, since they didn’t grant legitimate recognition to the sodomites.

So it is hypocritical when frum Jews try to deny rights to gays.

They have the same rights we do.