“Torah World” = Nonexistent

OK. I’m starting to stop… or maybe stopping to start…

Oh.. and btw THAT was Yanni’s great, grave mistake, מונחת בקרן זווית.

NO. NO NO!!! We have a Mesorah that must be transmitted father to son, Rav to Talmid. Torah is NOT a free for all. ישרפו ואל ימסרו… and the little that comes to mind about the great tragedy NS darkness that descended when the Torah was formally ‘translated’. So no, I mean yes. There is a Torah World. And that’s where the the Torah will be disseminated, discussed, learned, toiled… לא עשה כן לכל גוי, not for the ‘neighbors’ or the like minded.

The “Torah Velt” disagrees with you

1)

You are talking about individual people, Dovid is talking about modern orthodoxy as a whole

I also believe that in earnest, people in yeshiva administrations simply did not understand the far reaching psychological impact of abuse. It’s not a pasuk in chumash. It’s something the entire world didn’t understand until recently. I’m sure gedolim wouldn’t have approved of it, but to an average Jew, disrupting major mosdos over it seemed like overkill. It was a mistake, but i think it was an innocent one, without the intention to harm victims. The proof is that as awareness spreads, that “sweeping under the rug” is becoming FAR less common.

1 – can you explain on a surface level why abuse causes such profound damage? It’s a metzius, but even the experts don’t quite understand it.

Syag, from what I’ve read, there isn’t a clear understanding that bridges the gap between an abusive incident(or several) and the deep, hellish trauma that follows it, especially in non-violent circumstances. Many therapists have observed that there’s a very powerful guilt in the victims, others point to the breech of trust, but they’re never certain as to how it leads to a cycle of abuse, suicide, and other horrific things

Usually, abuse is learned behavior from someone a person trusts e.g. family member, rebbi but they know it’s wrong and such a thing is unhealthy to the development of a person. Anxiety develops as a result and can affect many different aspects of a person’s life.

Avirah – there is no way you have read up on this and walked away with that unless you read one lone article in an archive or heard someone tell you that they once read something somewhere. It’s not a mystery, a puzzle, difficult to trace or understand or undocumented. I don’t even know where to start an answer when your baseline is so off. Especially regarding your above posts. Please, either stop responding to things you don’t know about without stating you don’t know, or do your research.
You can go to jewishcommunitywatch and read some narrative essays and poems written by survivors that will give you more clarity than you want. Or try listening to some legitimate speakers. You will have nightmares, and it may be more information than you are open to, but then the other choice is to stay away from commenting on the subject as if you are knowledgeable. Your disinformation is more damaging than your silence.

“especially in non-violent circumstances”

hey, curious to know how inappropriate touching of a child without consent is non violent?

rhetorical, just answer it in your own head

Syag, you’re referring to the “what,” and I’m referring to the “why.”
I’ve seen several accounts from survivors; they address what happened to them and the pain they went through as a result. But they never explain what about their experiences causes their pain, nor do they need to; it’s just a reality. My point is that it’s not a reality that we would know about without being told it.

Ask any elderly person what the big deal is if a kid gets touched; most don’t understand it at all.

DaMoshe,

“A baal teshuvah, whose father doesn’t want him to become frum?”

A baal teshuva should acquire a rav for himself and in that way learn a mesorah.

There different is a global community of frum Jews, perhaps most broadly defined as including all halachic Jews who are Shomer Shabbos and Shomer Kashrus – which is probably broader than any member would probably acknowledge.

Ask any elderly person what the big deal is if a kid gets touched; most don’t understand it at all.

this is another bogus lie. Many elderly (whatever that means) will feign ignorance if you are referring to events that involved their peers, institutions or communities.
Many “elderly” will tell you that they just were ignorant of the warning signs and couldn’t believe the truth, especially because the victims were too petrified to spell it out in full.
Many other elderly who were actively involved in doing the sweeping were in panic mode hoping it would go away.

I have yet to hear anyone in real life say something so ignorant.

I will say though, that it 10-20 years, the 2 or 3 posters here who have said such moronic things will be elderly and may still be saying it.

“What does all this have to do with my OP?”

You made refrence to the “Torah velt” that it belongs to all
LF and dovid both said similarly that t there is a Torah world with same set of values for “3000 years”
1 then made reference to covering up for abuse
Avira defended the Troah world by saying that it was not known how bad abuse was, and in the course of that mentioned even today it isn’t well understood
That led to severa,l in particular Syag, to call out Avira for his nonsense.

and that is how we got here

YO
You are most welcome

Of course 8 minutes is much to long for a daf yomi shiur. If ou listen double speed you can get it down to a 4 minute daf

“Torah world” always knew about dangers in the world, including child abuse. For example, Gemora at the end of Ketubot says that when a husband is deceased, the child should be raised by the mother rather than husband’s brothers. Why? Because brothers will inherit from their brother in case the child dies and gemora refers to a case where this happened. Not necessarily killed, just neglected – at the times when child mortality was high.