March 24, 2011 5:14 am at 5:14 am #752872🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
i thought 2021 was a year. Like ‘class of 2021’. But that would be a LOT of college!March 24, 2011 5:17 am at 5:17 am #752873
lol.. I will never tell..March 24, 2011 5:25 am at 5:25 am #752874
2021- I never told you what you’re thinking and NOWHERE did I make light of abusers.March 24, 2011 5:28 am at 5:28 am #752875
2021- I know I’m supposed to be in dreamland now, but I’m trying to figure out what was SO bad about me saying that other people don’t know the truth about about your husband like you do, and therefore, they still might like him.March 24, 2011 5:43 am at 5:43 am #752876
Cookie, If thats what u meant than ok.. but this didnt exactly seem too innocent:
“So 2021- you’re not really looking for support. You’re just looking for more and more people to talk against your ex-hub, even though they never met him.”
“Sorry, I can’t do that. And I don’t think it’s right to make others do it when nobody can really know what went on in your home. “
Would I lie in a coffeeroom??
And even if u dont know 4sure what happened- if someone says ther abused- just play along, be nice, it def cant hurt. (not believing on the other hand..)
And Im sorry but a close family member is different than “others”..
Nighty nightMarch 24, 2011 5:56 am at 5:56 am #752877
2021- I apologize if I hurt you. I would never want to do that.
We have our Torah which obligates us not to believe Loshon Hora. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT U WERENT ABUSED. U PROBABLY WERE AND I FEEL FOR YOU.
But since I, or anyone else for that matter, wasn’t witness to the abuse, we may not make conclusions. So I believe you, but I will not draw conclusions.I’m just following Halacha. I’m so sorry.
Please understand me and accept my apology.
This is just the way I work.
I NEVER totally believe things that I hear. I sometimes believe but also leave a little space to be Dan Lkaf Zchus.(No, not for abuse.)
Can’t explain myself better since I’m typing without my glasses and one eye closed. I’m trying to sleep for the past hour!March 24, 2011 6:02 am at 6:02 am #752878
Why am I the only person on this forum who finds that talking against an ex on a public website is wrong?
What is going on?March 24, 2011 7:17 am at 7:17 am #752879ZeesKiteParticipant
May I interrupt for a moment?
I’ll discuss my own experience. I find that posting and writing positive, happy, cheerful pieces causes me to be same. My writing affects me. It causes me to focus on good conducive thoughts. (as I wrote elsewhere, I’m really a bitter sour-puss, mean and unfriendly)
I don’t know your story, wouldn’t want to pry – even privately (wouldn’t make me any happier). But for your own sake I think you shouldn’t be rehashing and dwelling in this vicious cycle. For your own sake let’s turn about face, with a bright new happy face! I’m almost sure professional psychologists of CR would agree. No? I’m nowhere near these smart, bright shining stars of the CR, but I believe speech defines a person.March 24, 2011 7:45 am at 7:45 am #752880
Looks like I missed a lot of action here while catching up on some shut-eye.
s2021: I understand you. You care a lot about your cousins, and its hurtful to see them all chummy chum with a guy they know was a part of the most painful time in your life. It is hurtful.March 24, 2011 7:49 am at 7:49 am #752881
smartcookie: You’re not the only one. She was dragged into this though. But, you’re right.March 24, 2011 9:07 am at 9:07 am #752882GoodMoodMember
If someone needs to let off steam sbout what is obviously a very difficult situation, I think an anonymous forum would be the best place to do it. I don’t think there’s anything wrong [loshon horoh-wise] with that.
s2021: it is difficult not to be understood. Particularly when it’s close family memebers who don’t understand what you went through.March 24, 2011 9:36 am at 9:36 am #752883hanibParticipant
s2021 and smartcookie:
you’re like the couple who went to a rabbi with their disagreement. first wife speaks – rabbi says, “you’re right”. then husband speaks – rabbi says, “you’re right”. then someone says, how can they both be right? rabbi says, “you’re right”.
smartcookie – you’re right, it’s wrong to bash anyone, especially ex’s when can’t hear other side. (people who work with marriage counseling, always say that if just hear one side, always think the other side must be horrible as this side is so great.
But …. s2021 is also right. She and others have been very hurt – we don’t have to know the ins and outs of the situation – we’re not the judge. what she’s asking now is for support. if someone was abused by someone, and they see close relatives and friends who should be supporting them, supporting the ex. – it can be extremely painful. maybe, she could have taken it better from you, if you first would have acknowledged how painful that is and then (several days later? 🙂 help her realize that her friends and relatives may not know what she went through, and as she herself knows, her ex. can be quite “charming”.
but s2021, even though you’re feeling intense pain, please don’t attack others (except for grandma – attack away ;)) – smartcookie meant well and did not mean to hurt you, though was obviously hurt by your statement.March 24, 2011 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #752884GrandmasterMember
But since I, or anyone else for that matter, wasn’t witness to the abuse, we may not make conclusions.
I NEVER totally believe things that I hear.
Thank you for standing up for the Emes under attack. This is too rare a phenomenon in today’s society.
Why am I the only person on this forum who finds that talking against an ex on a public website is wrong?
You are not.
What is going on?
Some people unfortunately wrongly feel they have a right to attack their ex and everyone must believe their side of the story. They don’t even want anyone to think their is another side to the story.March 24, 2011 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #752885SacrilegeMember
You go to sleep after a long days work and you miss all the action…
She calls herself smartcookie….
“you’re not really looking for support…..
Sorry, I can’t do that. And I don’t think it’s right to make others do it….”
Where to begin? First and foremost what would you consider it when someone vents? That is a means of YOU providing support, by them unburdening them self they are sharing their load with YOU.
Lets move on to the self-righteous part shall we? thats what got my goat.
“We have our Torah which obligates us not to believe Loshon Hora.”
You seem concerned for the honor of our Torah and its laws, are you in fact familiar with them?
(I run a Machsom L’fi program so I *may* be more equipped to deal with this than you.)
The Chofetz Chaim says that if someone is unburdening themselves to you, you are NOT obligated to tell them to stop because a- you are providing support and b- it is possible by them telling you, they will unburden them self and not tell anyone else. However, you are unable to believe what you are being told, NOT THAT YOU SHOULD TELL THAT TO THEM (I added that last part as a common decency sort of thing)
Now lets move on to the obvious which is clearly not obvious to some. This is an anonymous forum! You do not know s2021 or her ex-husband so pray tell how that would categorize as Lashon Horah? She never mentioned a name and could be making the entire story up for all you know.
I cant say that I understand what you are going through because I don’t, but we can all try to sympathize the best we can. One thing I will say to you is that maybe it’s best to keep the most intimate details of your divorce to yourself. We all have bad days and go on emotional benders, but you don’t want to say something that will cheapen you.March 24, 2011 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #752886
If someone needs to let off steam sbout what is obviously a very difficult situation, I think an anonymous forum would be the best place to do it. I don’t think there’s anything wrong [loshon horoh-wise] with that
The only difference here is that we’re not so anonymous. I figured out quite a few people here and I might be very close to knowing who S2021 is.March 24, 2011 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #752887TheGoqParticipant
wow s2021 im so sorry u had to live through that i know what it means to be the subject of abuse u have my sympathiesMarch 24, 2011 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #752888
With all due respect, I’d llikee to disagree with one thing you wrote, if I may. Although this forum is generally anonymous, it is not always the case. Certain posters end up revealing lots of info about themselves, and have people recognize them.
If you would be from her neighborhood, my guess is, you’d know exactly who they are . So SC’s point has a place. But, s2021 didn’t go into details, probably for this reason. And she deserves credit.
BTW, it’s quite impressive that you’re able to put in long workdays and stil manage to run a machsom program. It’s inspiringMarch 24, 2011 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #752890
s2021 – “Health- which one do u think it is??”
That’s so young it doesn’t make a difference. But I guess 21 because I don’t think you got married right when you turned 18.March 24, 2011 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #752891
“The only difference here is that we’re not so anonymous. I figured out quite a few people here and I might be very close to knowing who S2021 is.”
“Certain posters end up revealing lots of info about themselves, and have people recognize them.”
These are the exceptions, not the rule! Posting and venting on an anon. blog wouldn’t even be considered Ahvak L’H!March 24, 2011 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #752892
Cookie, Thank u. Iv been meaning to apologize to u the whole day today. I dont usually get like that, but last night was the most upset Iv been in a long time and I really needed to let it out. When I outrightedly said I was angry, that may not have been the time to give me advice, But still Im sorry I got sharp with u. Not usually my style.
It bothers me that ppl think Iv been attacking my ex. Iv always been very concientious about Loshon Horah- even when I was hurting and that is something very hard to do. Re-read my origionall outburst.I do think I deserve credit. Attacking was completely NOT my intention. I didnt want to attack at all! Not my ex and not even my cousin!! And I dont think thats what I did. My intention was to vent on an annonymus forum in order to get support 4 ME. Wasnt focussing on anyone else!! I know there is a risk ppl could figure out who I am, but I assumed venting was going to happen- better here, then to a hundred ppl who definately know me and my ex and my fam!
Im also sorry I gave away details. When that upset, its hard not to feel provoked by Grandma. 😉March 24, 2011 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #752893
Health: Each poster has to decide if they’ve been discovered. It may not be the rule, but once you’ve been discoverd, hilchos L”H does apply. Probably worse, since more people. Less since it’s writingMarch 24, 2011 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #752894SacrilegeMember
There are instance where Loshon Hora has been said, whether about groups of people, Yeshivos or Rabbonim (R”L)
Thankfully, I am now more aware of the dynamic of these boards and I can now figure out from a heading or from the first post or two how the conversation is going to go so I know to keep out!March 24, 2011 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #752895
S2021- I’m happy to see your post because I’m usually a good listener to someone’s problems. This just started out so innocently and before I knew it I’m in a argument here.
I come to the CR to enjoy. So let’s leave this conversation as is and not continue. I hope you get over these hard times, and you find your Zivug whom you’ll be so proud of forever!March 24, 2011 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #752896
Amen! thanxMarch 24, 2011 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #752898
Btw- ZK- No. Generally, I believe having a positive attitude and focusing on the jar half full is the secret to happiness. However, when someone is upset, denying feelings, or trying to force cheerfullness on urself when all u wanna do is cry or vent- is a garuntee to misery. Either ur body will keep score (stomache aches, backaches, stiff necks, illness) Or it will well up untill explosion day. The best thing is to alknowledge it, express what ur feeling (feelings are never right or wrong)- to a notebook, to a peron, to God, to a bowl of chocolate ice cream with peanut butter, caramel, n sprinkles.. and only then can it leave u, and let u be truly happy.March 24, 2011 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #752899
Hey s2021, how’re you doin’ today?? Hope ur feeling better!!
Okay, you’re not gonna like this one. Last night, I felt a teeeny bit uneasy when I jumped to a conclusion about your ex. And when Smartcookie pointed it out it kinda got me thinking. I was all confused. On the one hand I really felt like supporting you, but I wasn’t sure it was the right thing to do! After all, I haven’t a clue who you are! Anyway, I think Sac made it clear that it’s ok. I just wanted to clarify that I’ve no idea who s2021 is and I never heard the other side of the story. Nevertheless, I think it’s our duty to help our fellow coffee roomer in need. And I don’t regret what I wrote.
s2021 no personal offense! Just wanted to make it clear to the others.March 24, 2011 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #752900
observan- thanx! doin ok, said somethin to my cousin n feel a lil better.
I hear u, and I agree, jumping to a conclusion about my ex is not awesome. I just dont get why its assumed that I was asking 4 it? Just cuz I gave a bit of backround info to why I was feeling the way I was feeling doesnt mean I want anyone bashing anyone. It should be understood it means I want support. Attacking him isnt supporting me. Its focusing on him, which is exactly what bothered me. Telling me “sorry to hear, U must feel yicky” is supporting and in my opinion not loshon horah.. :))March 24, 2011 11:25 pm at 11:25 pm #752901hanibParticipant
s2021 – i agree with you about importance of acknowledging your feelings, but i disagree with you about the chocolate ice cream. chocolate itself is amazing or vanilla ice cream with the caramel topping, but i personally would skip the chocolate ice cream. though i understand that you might view things somewhat differently than me.
p.s. this would have been a perfect thread if it ended right after s2021 and smartcookie made up. sorry, but i like books with happy endings, but i guess this thread is more like real life.
happy ending…conflict…resolve conflict….happy ending….new conflict… oh well.March 25, 2011 12:13 am at 12:13 am #752902
bina-LOL. Actually, I do agree I just had to make my example as spicy as possible..
and really? I like books that end with u screaming “whaaaaaaaaaaaat!?!?” or “nooooooooo!!- u know, the kind that “gets” u..
In coffeeroom its kinda like conflict,resolve conflict, happy ending, dredge up same conflict…March 25, 2011 1:12 am at 1:12 am #752903
S2021- I’m curious what your cousin had to say when you confronted her.March 25, 2011 1:21 am at 1:21 am #752904
Good to hear!
Once again, I’m sorry I jumped to a conclusion. You definitely didn’t ask for it. I didn’t realize what I was doing.
Oh, I WISH I’d be there to see ur cousin blush!;)March 25, 2011 1:39 am at 1:39 am #752905
I feel bad 4 him.. ouch!March 25, 2011 2:17 am at 2:17 am #752906
BY – ” but i disagree with you about the chocolate ice cream. chocolate itself is amazing or vanilla ice cream with the caramel topping,”
Same with me. I like choc and also vanilla ice cream, but I don’t like choc ice cream.March 25, 2011 3:19 am at 3:19 am #752907
truth be told…I don’t know you,but from some of your posts(on other threads),I gather you know me.
s2021….I never shared this aspect of my story before,but I promise you I went from being a popular and often visited member of my family to losing 99% of my relatives to my ex in a tragic game of Red Rover.
The reason I held back from those details is because every few weeks someone pipes up that they know me,and I have relatives who still need shidduchim,plus it would be l”h against “beinonim”,unlike Mr.X who as a “moiser” and whatever else is in every category of people who MAY be spoken against.March 25, 2011 3:24 am at 3:24 am #752908
eclipse: I have no clue who you are outside of the coffee room. Which other threads are you referring to?March 25, 2011 3:32 am at 3:32 am #752909
eclipse – I feel left out. It seems everyone knows who you are, but me.March 25, 2011 3:38 am at 3:38 am #752910
I didn’t TELL anyone,Health.Oh wait,just bbubee.And a couple non-posters.March 25, 2011 4:00 am at 4:00 am #752911
eclipse: Wow. That must’ve been (is?) awful. I’m a bit surprised though. According to what you’ve said here he’s a true abuser. Didn’t they believe you? (Sorry if I sound nosy. Not intended! Don’t answer if you don’t feel like it) I must add I really admire you. You’ve been through sooo much! How on earth do you COPE??March 25, 2011 4:15 am at 4:15 am #752912
observanteen,to answer your question:
1.The blatant abuse is behind closed doors.
2.Many types of abuse are not “visible” to the untrained eye/ear.
3.In many instances,I was competing with his softly-spoken lies,while I cried and screamed the truth–which was so ugly,they preferred the lies.
4.Many other factors!March 25, 2011 4:25 am at 4:25 am #752913
Ohh. You’re getting me real scared. I mean… after all I plan on getting married one day. It’s just that I’m TERRIFIED of getting abused C”V. I’m mispalel every day that I find the right one and all, but still… How can you KNOW if underneath the nice guy you’re dating there’s a monster in hiding?
Oh, and you didn’t answer the most challenging one… How DO you cope?;)March 25, 2011 4:31 am at 4:31 am #752914
observanteen…YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING I DIDN’T FULLY UNDERSTAND AS A YOUNG GIRL.
YOU ARE DAVENING EVERY DAY FOR THE RIGHT(good,kind,sincere) ONE.
Had I done more PREVENTATIVE davening,I may have had an easier time.
And how do I cope?
Because NOW I UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH I NEED HASHEM,I TURN TO HIM,AND HE HELPS ME DEAL WITH IT ALL.March 25, 2011 4:35 am at 4:35 am #752915ShrekMember
eclipse, if this is not too personal: looking back, could you have seen his abusive tendencies during the dating/engagement period? Was it too well hidden? Or did this develop later into the marriage?
Maybe Obervanteen could benefit from hearing the answers to these questions, but obviously you should only answer if you feel OK with it.March 25, 2011 4:45 am at 4:45 am #752916
observan- I have the same question 4 myself 4 when I start dating again. I think: make sure research is done thoroughly, and trust ur instincts, ur feelings, ur gut. Of course ppl lie, so ask pointed questions to the guy ur out with. You should get help with someone very experienced to help u figure out xactly what those questions shuld be, and to speak to while ur dating. Also, I didnt know this when I dated, but sum guys r on ther best behavior but in a dishonest way. (I was completely honest and upfront about everything when I dated, I assumed that everyone was too) Theres so many ways to date wrong, and marriage is not the kinda mistake that could be easily corrected, so get guidance please!!!March 25, 2011 4:51 am at 4:51 am #752917
1.well-hidden(many abusers are charmers winning you over)
2.many things WERE THE SEEDS OF PATTERNS but I had no way of knowing it then
3.we were told he was a “future gadol”,so I kept thinking I must be flawed,and kept trying to improve myself
4.when I realized HE HAD SOME SERIOUS ISSUES,they were white-washed by one and all
5.as I became more distraught from the relentless abuse and severe sleep deprivation,he told others my increasing emotionalism “proved how crazy I was”
6.about a zillion other factorsMarch 25, 2011 4:53 am at 4:53 am #752918
s2021: It feels kinda weird dropping a guy cuz “you’re following your guts”. Know what I mean? What if he really IS a great guy and you just missed the boat by letting him go?March 25, 2011 4:54 am at 4:54 am #752919
eclipse – “In many instances,I was competing with his softly-spoken lies,while I cried and screamed the truth–which was so ugly,they preferred the lies.”
Ya know, I had this. Not with my ex, but with others. The people judging up on the situation -just said – I must be the crazy one-I must be the one who is lying. It doesn’t matter to me now -the ones who sided against me will also one day have to answer for their actions or non-actions!March 25, 2011 4:55 am at 4:55 am #752920
Boruch Hashem,my children and I have come a long way from those awful times!!We have a warm and happy household where visitors feel welcome and comfortable…even the “troubled teen” I mentioned months ago,who needs yeshuos…but finally understands what a mother’s love is truly about,OTD notwithstanding.March 25, 2011 4:56 am at 4:56 am #752921
“I was completely honest and upfront about everything when I dated,”
I’m exactly the same way.March 25, 2011 5:03 am at 5:03 am #752922
eclipse- what do u mean preventative davening?
Davening is very “touchy” to me bec I always davened SO MUCH 4 a caring,kind,good husband who will treat me well- and now its hard 4 me to pick up my siddur with the same feelings of trust and reliance.. I feel kind of betrayed..(Its scary to admit) Its not that I dont eccept or trust in Hashm and His plan 4 me. Its just davening now just doesnt feel as good.. Has anyone experienced this?March 25, 2011 5:08 am at 5:08 am #752923
Theres so many ways to date wrong, and marriage is not the kinda mistake that could be easily corrected, so get guidance please!!!
Proper guidance would be from someone who understands you.
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