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i thought 2021 was a year. Like ‘class of 2021’. But that would be a LOT of college!
2021- I never told you what you’re thinking and NOWHERE did I make light of abusers.
2021- I know I’m supposed to be in dreamland now, but I’m trying to figure out what was SO bad about me saying that other people don’t know the truth about about your husband like you do, and therefore, they still might like him.
2021- I apologize if I hurt you. I would never want to do that.
We have our Torah which obligates us not to believe Loshon Hora. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT U WERENT ABUSED. U PROBABLY WERE AND I FEEL FOR YOU.
But since I, or anyone else for that matter, wasn’t witness to the abuse, we may not make conclusions. So I believe you, but I will not draw conclusions.I’m just following Halacha. I’m so sorry.
Please understand me and accept my apology.
This is just the way I work.
I NEVER totally believe things that I hear. I sometimes believe but also leave a little space to be Dan Lkaf Zchus.(No, not for abuse.)
Can’t explain myself better since I’m typing without my glasses and one eye closed. I’m trying to sleep for the past hour!
Why am I the only person on this forum who finds that talking against an ex on a public website is wrong?
What is going on?
May I interrupt for a moment?
I’ll discuss my own experience. I find that posting and writing positive, happy, cheerful pieces causes me to be same. My writing affects me. It causes me to focus on good conducive thoughts. (as I wrote elsewhere, I’m really a bitter sour-puss, mean and unfriendly)
I don’t know your story, wouldn’t want to pry – even privately (wouldn’t make me any happier). But for your own sake I think you shouldn’t be rehashing and dwelling in this vicious cycle. For your own sake let’s turn about face, with a bright new happy face! I’m almost sure professional psychologists of CR would agree. No? I’m nowhere near these smart, bright shining stars of the CR, but I believe speech defines a person.
Looks like I missed a lot of action here while catching up on some shut-eye.
s2021: I understand you. You care a lot about your cousins, and its hurtful to see them all chummy chum with a guy they know was a part of the most painful time in your life. It is hurtful.
smartcookie: You’re not the only one. She was dragged into this though. But, you’re right.
If someone needs to let off steam sbout what is obviously a very difficult situation, I think an anonymous forum would be the best place to do it. I don’t think there’s anything wrong [loshon horoh-wise] with that.
s2021: it is difficult not to be understood. Particularly when it’s close family memebers who don’t understand what you went through.
s2021 and smartcookie:
you’re like the couple who went to a rabbi with their disagreement. first wife speaks – rabbi says, “you’re right”. then husband speaks – rabbi says, “you’re right”. then someone says, how can they both be right? rabbi says, “you’re right”.
smartcookie – you’re right, it’s wrong to bash anyone, especially ex’s when can’t hear other side. (people who work with marriage counseling, always say that if just hear one side, always think the other side must be horrible as this side is so great.
But …. s2021 is also right. She and others have been very hurt – we don’t have to know the ins and outs of the situation – we’re not the judge. what she’s asking now is for support. if someone was abused by someone, and they see close relatives and friends who should be supporting them, supporting the ex. – it can be extremely painful. maybe, she could have taken it better from you, if you first would have acknowledged how painful that is and then (several days later? 🙂 help her realize that her friends and relatives may not know what she went through, and as she herself knows, her ex. can be quite “charming”.
but s2021, even though you’re feeling intense pain, please don’t attack others (except for grandma – attack away ;)) – smartcookie meant well and did not mean to hurt you, though was obviously hurt by your statement.
smartcookie:
But since I, or anyone else for that matter, wasn’t witness to the abuse, we may not make conclusions.
So true.
I NEVER totally believe things that I hear.
Thank you for standing up for the Emes under attack. This is too rare a phenomenon in today’s society.
Why am I the only person on this forum who finds that talking against an ex on a public website is wrong?
You are not.
What is going on?
Some people unfortunately wrongly feel they have a right to attack their ex and everyone must believe their side of the story. They don’t even want anyone to think their is another side to the story.
You go to sleep after a long days work and you miss all the action…
She calls herself smartcookie….
“you’re not really looking for support…..
Sorry, I can’t do that. And I don’t think it’s right to make others do it….”
Where to begin? First and foremost what would you consider it when someone vents? That is a means of YOU providing support, by them unburdening them self they are sharing their load with YOU.
Lets move on to the self-righteous part shall we? thats what got my goat.
“We have our Torah which obligates us not to believe Loshon Hora.”
You seem concerned for the honor of our Torah and its laws, are you in fact familiar with them?
(I run a Machsom L’fi program so I *may* be more equipped to deal with this than you.)
The Chofetz Chaim says that if someone is unburdening themselves to you, you are NOT obligated to tell them to stop because a- you are providing support and b- it is possible by them telling you, they will unburden them self and not tell anyone else. However, you are unable to believe what you are being told, NOT THAT YOU SHOULD TELL THAT TO THEM (I added that last part as a common decency sort of thing)
Now lets move on to the obvious which is clearly not obvious to some. This is an anonymous forum! You do not know s2021 or her ex-husband so pray tell how that would categorize as Lashon Horah? She never mentioned a name and could be making the entire story up for all you know.
s2021
I cant say that I understand what you are going through because I don’t, but we can all try to sympathize the best we can. One thing I will say to you is that maybe it’s best to keep the most intimate details of your divorce to yourself. We all have bad days and go on emotional benders, but you don’t want to say something that will cheapen you.
If someone needs to let off steam sbout what is obviously a very difficult situation, I think an anonymous forum would be the best place to do it. I don’t think there’s anything wrong [loshon horoh-wise] with that
The only difference here is that we’re not so anonymous. I figured out quite a few people here and I might be very close to knowing who S2021 is.
wow s2021 im so sorry u had to live through that i know what it means to be the subject of abuse u have my sympathies
Sacrilege:
With all due respect, I’d llikee to disagree with one thing you wrote, if I may. Although this forum is generally anonymous, it is not always the case. Certain posters end up revealing lots of info about themselves, and have people recognize them.
If you would be from her neighborhood, my guess is, you’d know exactly who they are . So SC’s point has a place. But, s2021 didn’t go into details, probably for this reason. And she deserves credit.
BTW, it’s quite impressive that you’re able to put in long workdays and stil manage to run a machsom program. It’s inspiring
s2021 – “Health- which one do u think it is??”
That’s so young it doesn’t make a difference. But I guess 21 because I don’t think you got married right when you turned 18.
“The only difference here is that we’re not so anonymous. I figured out quite a few people here and I might be very close to knowing who S2021 is.”
“Certain posters end up revealing lots of info about themselves, and have people recognize them.”
These are the exceptions, not the rule! Posting and venting on an anon. blog wouldn’t even be considered Ahvak L’H!
Health: Each poster has to decide if they’ve been discovered. It may not be the rule, but once you’ve been discoverd, hilchos L”H does apply. Probably worse, since more people. Less since it’s writing
There are instance where Loshon Hora has been said, whether about groups of people, Yeshivos or Rabbonim (R”L)
Thankfully, I am now more aware of the dynamic of these boards and I can now figure out from a heading or from the first post or two how the conversation is going to go so I know to keep out!
S2021- I’m happy to see your post because I’m usually a good listener to someone’s problems. This just started out so innocently and before I knew it I’m in a argument here.
I come to the CR to enjoy. So let’s leave this conversation as is and not continue. I hope you get over these hard times, and you find your Zivug whom you’ll be so proud of forever!
Hey s2021, how’re you doin’ today?? Hope ur feeling better!!
Okay, you’re not gonna like this one. Last night, I felt a teeeny bit uneasy when I jumped to a conclusion about your ex. And when Smartcookie pointed it out it kinda got me thinking. I was all confused. On the one hand I really felt like supporting you, but I wasn’t sure it was the right thing to do! After all, I haven’t a clue who you are! Anyway, I think Sac made it clear that it’s ok. I just wanted to clarify that I’ve no idea who s2021 is and I never heard the other side of the story. Nevertheless, I think it’s our duty to help our fellow coffee roomer in need. And I don’t regret what I wrote.
s2021 no personal offense! Just wanted to make it clear to the others.
s2021 – i agree with you about importance of acknowledging your feelings, but i disagree with you about the chocolate ice cream. chocolate itself is amazing or vanilla ice cream with the caramel topping, but i personally would skip the chocolate ice cream. though i understand that you might view things somewhat differently than me.
p.s. this would have been a perfect thread if it ended right after s2021 and smartcookie made up. sorry, but i like books with happy endings, but i guess this thread is more like real life.
happy ending…conflict…resolve conflict….happy ending….new conflict… oh well.
S2021- I’m curious what your cousin had to say when you confronted her.
Good to hear!
Once again, I’m sorry I jumped to a conclusion. You definitely didn’t ask for it. I didn’t realize what I was doing.
Oh, I WISH I’d be there to see ur cousin blush!;)
BY – ” but i disagree with you about the chocolate ice cream. chocolate itself is amazing or vanilla ice cream with the caramel topping,”
Same with me. I like choc and also vanilla ice cream, but I don’t like choc ice cream.
truth be told…I don’t know you,but from some of your posts(on other threads),I gather you know me.
s2021….I never shared this aspect of my story before,but I promise you I went from being a popular and often visited member of my family to losing 99% of my relatives to my ex in a tragic game of Red Rover.
The reason I held back from those details is because every few weeks someone pipes up that they know me,and I have relatives who still need shidduchim,plus it would be l”h against “beinonim”,unlike Mr.X who as a “moiser” and whatever else is in every category of people who MAY be spoken against.
eclipse: I have no clue who you are outside of the coffee room. Which other threads are you referring to?
eclipse – I feel left out. It seems everyone knows who you are, but me.
I didn’t TELL anyone,Health.Oh wait,just bbubee.And a couple non-posters.
eclipse: Wow. That must’ve been (is?) awful. I’m a bit surprised though. According to what you’ve said here he’s a true abuser. Didn’t they believe you? (Sorry if I sound nosy. Not intended! Don’t answer if you don’t feel like it) I must add I really admire you. You’ve been through sooo much! How on earth do you COPE??
observanteen,to answer your question:
1.The blatant abuse is behind closed doors.
2.Many types of abuse are not “visible” to the untrained eye/ear.
3.In many instances,I was competing with his softly-spoken lies,while I cried and screamed the truth–which was so ugly,they preferred the lies.
4.Many other factors!
Ohh. You’re getting me real scared. I mean… after all I plan on getting married one day. It’s just that I’m TERRIFIED of getting abused C”V. I’m mispalel every day that I find the right one and all, but still… How can you KNOW if underneath the nice guy you’re dating there’s a monster in hiding?
Oh, and you didn’t answer the most challenging one… How DO you cope?;)
observanteen…YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING I DIDN’T FULLY UNDERSTAND AS A YOUNG GIRL.
YOU ARE DAVENING EVERY DAY FOR THE RIGHT(good,kind,sincere) ONE.
Had I done more PREVENTATIVE davening,I may have had an easier time.
And how do I cope?
Because NOW I UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH I NEED HASHEM,I TURN TO HIM,AND HE HELPS ME DEAL WITH IT ALL.
eclipse, if this is not too personal: looking back, could you have seen his abusive tendencies during the dating/engagement period? Was it too well hidden? Or did this develop later into the marriage?
Maybe Obervanteen could benefit from hearing the answers to these questions, but obviously you should only answer if you feel OK with it.
Shrek.In short:
1.well-hidden(many abusers are charmers winning you over)
2.many things WERE THE SEEDS OF PATTERNS but I had no way of knowing it then
3.we were told he was a “future gadol”,so I kept thinking I must be flawed,and kept trying to improve myself
4.when I realized HE HAD SOME SERIOUS ISSUES,they were white-washed by one and all
5.as I became more distraught from the relentless abuse and severe sleep deprivation,he told others my increasing emotionalism “proved how crazy I was”
6.about a zillion other factors
s2021: It feels kinda weird dropping a guy cuz “you’re following your guts”. Know what I mean? What if he really IS a great guy and you just missed the boat by letting him go?
eclipse – “In many instances,I was competing with his softly-spoken lies,while I cried and screamed the truth–which was so ugly,they preferred the lies.”
Ya know, I had this. Not with my ex, but with others. The people judging up on the situation -just said – I must be the crazy one-I must be the one who is lying. It doesn’t matter to me now -the ones who sided against me will also one day have to answer for their actions or non-actions!
Boruch Hashem,my children and I have come a long way from those awful times!!We have a warm and happy household where visitors feel welcome and comfortable…even the “troubled teen” I mentioned months ago,who needs yeshuos…but finally understands what a mother’s love is truly about,OTD notwithstanding.
“I was completely honest and upfront about everything when I dated,”
I’m exactly the same way.
Theres so many ways to date wrong, and marriage is not the kinda mistake that could be easily corrected, so get guidance please!!!
Proper guidance would be from someone who understands you.
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