January 6, 2013 5:48 am at 5:48 am #919596
I didn’t say nuthin bout graduate school.January 6, 2013 5:55 am at 5:55 am #919597
akuperma -“If you have the grades and scores to go to NYU or Columbia, they are better schools than Touro. If you can get into a public university (e.g.CUNY or SUNY for a New Yorkers), the in-state tuition is much cheaper. Some people lack the grades to get into a public university, and they’ll find Touro is an option. Some people find a co-ed non-Jewish environment to be too intimidating if not hostile, and Touro is an answer.”
Let me explain you the reason why many Frum Jews pick Touro. Even if they have the grades for Ivy league schools they pick Touro. Even if it costs a little more they pick Touro. Why? In the non co-ed schools Frum people pick it not because it’s intimidating otherwise, just it makes keeping Halacha easier. There are a lot of Halacha problems that can come up in Co-ed schools.
And even in the Co-ed schools Frum people go there because they will never have class on Shabbos or on Yom Tov and only part of the day on Erev of these days. I’ve gone to other colleges and I always had to make my schedule around Shabbos and when I needed to take off Yom Tov, even though they had to legally let me off – they gave me a hard time.January 6, 2013 6:56 am at 6:56 am #919598
Health: Please do not confuse respect with Hate. I don’t care enough about Touro to even put forth any hate emotions. I am stating my experience and as it indicates, I do not respect it. However, B’h it’s LH and not Mozyzi Shem Rah, cause that would mean I also lied. And yes, I went to the one on Ave J and probably knew about 50% of the guys. I stand by what I said.
Also, the same halacha issues you have in coed schools you have working. I can’t fathom what halacha issues you are referring to, but I realize it’s never to late to create a new chumrah.
What college have you went to where they had class on shabbos?!! I went to undergad and grad school and NEVER had a class or exam on shabbos!! You either take weekday classes, night classes or weekend classes. If you are not signed up for a weekend class, you NEVER have class on shabbos. As far as Yom Tov, why is it any different than anything else in life. Yes, you can take off, but you are still responsible for what happens! Do you use that excuse at work? “Sorry, I was off for my holiday so I missed the deadline.” No, you get the work done before Yom Tov starts and follow up after Yom Tov.
The only “maileah” Touro had was it did not require SAT’s. I am forever grateful for that 🙂January 6, 2013 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #919599zahavasdadParticipant
I went to a public university and never had any classes on Shabbos either and since in college few people want to go on Friday, there were rarely any classes on Fridays after 12:15
The school was closed for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur and you just took off for Succos, (Pesach might or might not be spring break) and ShavouthJanuary 6, 2013 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #919600PatriMember
I work in the human resources department of a large national firm with all types of employees including a number of Touro grads. And many of the Touro alumni are earning significantly higher salaries than some of our Ivy Leaguers.January 6, 2013 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #919601
Have you considered Y.U.? Its ranked by U.S news and world report as the 46th best college in the country and has learning on par with lakewood.January 6, 2013 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #919603
anon1m0us- “Health: Please do not confuse respect with Hate. I don’t care enough about Touro to even put forth any hate emotions. I am stating my experience and as it indicates, I do not respect it. However, B’h it’s LH and not Mozyzi Shem Rah, cause that would mean I also lied. And yes, I went to the one on Ave J and probably knew about 50% of the guys. I stand by what I said.”
But since you’re just qualifying your statement now -your original statement is Motzay Shem Ra! And how you can say you don’t hate Touro when you just made a negative statement about all of Touro colleges because you didn’t like one. This is simply hate – more than lack of respect. S/o that doesn’t respect something doesn’t seek revenge by putting down everything about the place, like you did. Your statement applied to All their schools whether you admit it or not.
“Also, the same halacha issues you have in coed schools you have working. I can’t fathom what halacha issues you are referring to, but I realize it’s never to late to create a new chumrah.”
Funny, are you MO that thinks the workplace is the same as college? Either you’re very ignorant about what goes on in college or your Yeshiva education didn’t include these Halachos.
First of all, there are all sort of legal rules that you have in the workplace, like ____ harrassment that doesn’t exist in college. Do you think it’s a Chumra not to have to mingle with people from the opposite gender? Do you think it’s a Chumra not to have to do a project with the opposite gender when you’re assigned one from the professor?
“What college have you went to where they had class on shabbos?!! I went to undergad and grad school and NEVER had a class or exam on shabbos!! You either take weekday classes, night classes or weekend classes. If you are not signed up for a weekend class, you NEVER have class on shabbos. As far as Yom Tov, why is it any different than anything else in life. Yes, you can take off, but you are still responsible for what happens! Do you use that excuse at work? “Sorry, I was off for my holiday so I missed the deadline.” No, you get the work done before Yom Tov starts and follow up after Yom Tov.”
First of all, some schools are now including Fri as part as weekday scheduling which are making Frum scheduling harder.
As far as Yom Tov goes I didn’t say you can’t take off, but they give you a hard time. I once had to take off Yom Tov and they made me take the test that was scheduled then – beforehand, limiting my study time. Why should s/o make their life harder when there are schools like Touro?January 6, 2013 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #919604
zahavasdad -“I went to a public university and never had any classes on Shabbos either and since in college few people want to go on Friday, there were rarely any classes on Fridays after 12:15”
This has changed in many colleges nowadays.January 6, 2013 5:36 pm at 5:36 pm #919605
Matan1 -“Have you considered Y.U.? Its ranked by U.S news and world report as the 46th best college in the country and has learning on par with lakewood.”
Most Frum people disagree about the learning level there. So they stay in their regular Yeshivos and go to Touro at night. (Providing that their Yeshiva allows this.)January 6, 2013 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #919606
Health- Have you ever been to the YU batai midrashim?January 6, 2013 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #919607
Health- Again, just because I do not respect Touro does not mean I hate it. Just because I disagree with them does not make me hate them! The OP was looking for information from people which I responded with my own experiences. If the OP wanted propaganda, I am sure they are capable of clicking on Touro.edu. So yes, I informed the OP of my experiences. Speaking of yeshiva and Halacha, please learn Hilchos Loshan Horah before deciding to throw the word around.
Are you sure you are an adult? They way you perceive college and women is more expected from a yeshiva boy still in high school.January 6, 2013 8:49 pm at 8:49 pm #919608
Matan, I would presume the level of learning in YU’s BM is wonderful, but unfortunately that’s irrelevant due to YU’s hashkafa. For example, besides for general issues with MO, YU’s school-sponsored events where the two genders mix partly defeats the purpose of attending gender-separate schools even if you’re not forced to attend those events.January 6, 2013 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #919609
PBA: Makes a lot more sense. Good for you.January 6, 2013 10:26 pm at 10:26 pm #919610
Does it make sense? Graduate schools don’t teach you writing or anything–they teach you whatever subject it is.January 6, 2013 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #919611
Popa: By the time you go to Graduate school, you should already have your own Administrative Assistant 🙂 Actually, my grad school graded our papers on content, writing style, use of language and brevity.January 6, 2013 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #919612uneeqMember
ICOT: I finally figured out how to change my name. This is great. I always wanted to be yuneeq and not uneeq but ever since I lost my password, it didn’t let me recover it.January 7, 2013 12:05 am at 12:05 am #919613
PBA: It makes more sense than someone like you coming straight out of yeshiva.January 7, 2013 12:24 am at 12:24 am #919614
HaKatan- im not really sure which events you are talking about. Yes there are plenty of clubs in YU that one can join, but non of them promote or contain promiscuous behavior.January 7, 2013 1:36 am at 1:36 am #919615
anon1m0us -“Funny, did you grow up in a secluded area where there are no women around? Do you think women only exist in the workplace or in the kitchen? Women are in colleges, streets etc. The same laws that apply in the workplace apply in College and outside your work. I am sure you are aware that every college has their own HR, security and also work closely with the police if any crimes take place.”
Who’s talking about crimes?
If you’re saying that bad things go on in Touro, do you really think the Nisayon is less in a Goyish college? Sounds like you have a guilty complex. Your Hashkofos are way off base. Why don’t you ask your Rabbi, if you have one, what is preferable – to go to a co-ed school or a Non co-ed school if the whole difference will be how much money you’ll have afterwards from your job?
“The world does not revolve around you or your problems. If you are going to miss the exam, take it early or whenever they tell you need to take it.”
Again you repeat the same nonsense. I didn’t say it wasn’t possible – I said you get a hard time. Why have a hard time when you can go to Touro?January 7, 2013 1:42 am at 1:42 am #919616
Matan1 -“Health- Have you ever been to the YU batai midrashim?”
Actually I have for a few minutes. I didn’t judge them up for those few minutes.
I personally knew 2 Rebbeyim from there that didn’t send their own kids there. Now I wonder why?January 7, 2013 1:42 am at 1:42 am #919617
Really? Don’t be so sure of that. Check out YU’s university funded EAGLBT toeiva club, directly recognized on the YU website:January 7, 2013 3:18 am at 3:18 am #919618
Matan, I didn’t write “promiscuous”; I wrote mixed-gender. Mixing the genders is a problem even without promiscuity. Just reading through YU’s blog indicates this mixing, though that’s not the extent of it, obviously.
At no point did I imply promiscuity. Kedusha of a ben and bas melech, however, requires much more than not being promiscuous.January 7, 2013 3:27 am at 3:27 am #919619Yamoos7123Member
Did you go to collegeJanuary 7, 2013 4:21 am at 4:21 am #919620
Health- there could be a hundred reasons why they didnt send there. Plus, there are plenty of rabbeim who do send their children to YU.
Shmoel- To quote from einstein’s website, “The Einstein Association of Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals and Transgenders (EAGLBT) attempts to provide both social and academic support for members of the Einstein LGBT community, as well as educational programming to raise awareness of the clinical and social issues faced in working with LGBT patients and colleagues.” I dont see a problem with this. Its a support group. Thats it.
HaKatan- Whats wrong with a kosher social gathering of men and women?January 7, 2013 5:05 am at 5:05 am #919621
Health & Shmoel: A college can not discriminate and must accept everyone. Even Touro Hakodosh has a Toeva club…. I wonder if Rabbonim will come out against Touro.
And Touro even funds these groups:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touro_University_Gay%E2%80%93Straight_AllianceJanuary 7, 2013 6:11 am at 6:11 am #919622
PBA: It makes more sense than someone like you coming straight out of yeshiva.
I was posting here when I was just a regular yeshiva guy. I don’t think my posting has changed very much.January 7, 2013 10:15 am at 10:15 am #919623
Yamoos: Yes, and to attend grad school (in a field that actually does have jobs) in the near future.
PBA: I just don’t see someone with your intelligence and apparent hashkafos not getting any degree.
Someone is not likely to develop your writing skills if they don’t intend to get a degree, but if they do, it increases the probability of their pursuing a degree. Call it woman’s intuition.January 7, 2013 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm #919624
You are changing your tune. You previously claimed Y.U. has no clubs that promote promiscuos behavior. I’ve shown you from YU’s own website they in fact do have YU recognized and funded toeiva promiscuos club.
The mere fact a toeiva club exists in YU promotes such immoral behavior, no less than a “YU Adultery Club” merely billed as a “support group” for adulterers at YU would implicity (or even explicitly) support such promiscuos immoral behavior.January 7, 2013 1:00 pm at 1:00 pm #919625
Matan, you wrote: “HaKatan- Whats wrong with a kosher social gathering of men and women?”
Nothing, of course. But these gatherings that YU has are not “kosher social gathering
of men and women” but rather non-kosher ones.
January 7, 2013 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #919626
shmoel- The club in no way promotes any kind of immoral behavior. Its just a support group. People who are homosexual have most probably been outsiders of ostracized for most of their life.
You are confusing homosexual feelings as opposed to acting on them.January 7, 2013 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #919627
These immoral people are acting out their immoarlities, not merely suppresing those “feelings”. Who do you think you’re kidding?
But let’s put that aside and pretend you’re right for a moment. Obviously you support a “YU Adultery Club” “support group” to help “support” YU students who have such feelings (but of course don’t act it out.)
There is no difference between the two.January 7, 2013 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #919628
Hakatan- How on earth would you know that? Have you ever attended YU. I have, and was a member of several clubs, and never did I see anything inappropriate behavior at any of these events. Most gatherings are just events related to a specific major, like a guest speaker of a certain profession. Others are more relaxed, but the administration has a lot of oversight about what goes on during these events.January 7, 2013 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #919629zahavasdadParticipant
For the record YU is officially non-sectarian (As are many Jesuit colleges in NY like Fordham and St Johns) , which it needs to be in order to get state and federal funding.
If you are officially non-sectarian you must obey New York laws on descrimination , and there is a law saying you cannot discrimate against “teoviah” people. There is no law saying you cannot descrimate against adultersJanuary 7, 2013 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #919630
shmoel: You might have missing my other post, so here goes..
A college can not discriminate and must accept everyone. Even Touro Hakodosh has a Toeva club…. I wonder if Rabbonim will come out against Touro.
And Touro even funds these groups:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touro_University_Gay%E2%80%93Straight_Alliance. (I know wiki is not a good source, but the actual sources are listed on bottom of the page).
SO I guess now people should consider Touro without a Bais Medrish or YU that has a Bais Medrish. Since they both fund all types of clubs.January 7, 2013 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #919631
1) I read your Touro links. It does not seem to be a club but rather a discussion of toeiva. This is not excusable but is far less severe than YU’s financial support and tolerance of an ongoing toeiva club.
2) Even if Touro is supporting a club (something I see no evidence of), then they too must be condemned for that. It in no way shape or form excuses YU’s reprehensible behavior in supporting this abomination.
If there was a government mandate that in order to receive state funding the university must provide a “room” for the night for adulterers and toeivaniks to engage in their immorality, that makes it less assur to provide a room for that purpose? In order to receive funding? Chas V’Shalom!January 7, 2013 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #919632
Sorry, I’m not buying that. I know English because I like reading books, and that is also why I know stuff (because I read them).
You are severely misunderstanding what yeshiva guys are. There are plenty of yeshiva guys just like me, who know how to write just fine, and are very well informed about the world.
And just which hashkafos of mine lend to going to college?January 7, 2013 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #919635
Matan1 -“Health- there could be a hundred reasons why they didnt send there.”
There could be, but the most logical reason is that the Torah learning and/or Torah environment is Not up to par. If it was for a different reason some of the kids would have gone, but maybe not all. Look I know these people personally -so it’s not a coincidence that not one of them went.
You want to live in your little lies -it’s fine with me, but coming here and trying to convince the world that your lies are true is when I’m going to stand up and expose them.
And my post is Not to say that there aren’t any Bnai Torah there.
Some people excelled in spite of the environment, but that doesn’t mean s/o should take that risk.
We have had this argument many times before in the CR. If s/o is looking for a Yeshiva like a YU, the best bet is NIRC in Balto., MD.January 7, 2013 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #919636
You said you know 2 rabbeim that didnt sent their children to YU. 2 cases does not substantiate your claim. It is just anecdotal evidence.
Im not lying. The level of learning in YU is on par with any other yeshiva in north america, not to mention that YU has the largest collection of roshay yeshiva in north america.
Please come to the gleuck bais medrish and join in our learning. You will not be disappointed.January 7, 2013 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #919637
For s/o with so much college behind him -you can’t seem to comprehend my simple point. My point was that in the workplace because of all the laws that there are – people tend to hesitate to mingle with opposite genders because they are afraid of them taking it the wrong way and possibly complaining to the bosses, Gov., etc. about it. People in college have no such fear and mingling is commonplace.
“You are missing the point. I went to both Touro and Co-Ed.”
And so did I, but not to Flatbush division.
“I know what went on in both.”
And so did I.
Actually I’m enlightening you that whatever goes on in Touro – it’s worse in regular college.
“The Nisayon is harder in Touro because you think you are in a frum environment. In Co-ED College, your walls are up and you are wary of everything.”
Well wake up and smell the coffee. Not e/o is wary of Not mingling with opposite genders in regular college. Plenty of people fall in, whether the opposite Gender is Jewish or not.
That wasn’t the question I posted. Here it is again:
“What is preferable – to go to a co-ed school or a Non co-ed school if the whole difference will be how much money you’ll have afterwards from your job?”
Why don’t you ask him this question and then post his answer here?
I did go to Touro after the others. There are reasons I didn’t go there first, but one of the main reasons was – there isn’t a Touro near Lakewood.
“Health & Shmoel: A college can not discriminate and must accept everyone. Even Touro Hakodosh has a Toeva club…. I wonder if Rabbonim will come out against Touro.”
We had this discussion about the clubs previously in the CR. You can search the CR for all those posts. I’m Not interested in rehashing this aspect of the topic.January 7, 2013 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #919638
You said you know 2 rabbeim that didnt sent their children to YU. 2 cases does not substantiate your claim. It is just anecdotal evidence.”
You’d be right if they were just Hebrew teachers, but one of them was an Odom Godol and everything he did was for a good reason.
“Im not lying. The level of learning in YU is on par with any other yeshiva in north america, not to mention that YU has the largest collection of roshay yeshiva in north america.
Please come to the gleuck bais medrish and join in our learning. You will not be disappointed.”
Ok, I’ll take your word for this. So it must be the other reason I mentioned – that they didn’t send – that YU’s environment is Not conducive for Bochurim to become Bnei Torah!January 7, 2013 7:52 pm at 7:52 pm #919639
You also do not need to rehash other CR topics. The point is Touro has a club that is not condoned by the Gedolim.January 7, 2013 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #919640
Its not that its not conducive. Its that its a college. People who are against college will be against YU. There are several rabbeim in YU who do not agree with the college aspect of the institution. That doesnt mean that its not for a ben Torah.
The rabbeim who dont send their kids to YU do so because they dont approve of a college atmosphere.January 7, 2013 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #919641
Matan, it’s not necessary to write about my personal experiences.
There are various tznius issues evident by simply perusing YU’s official blog, to say nothing of the things people have written about to the YU Commentator.
I don’t understand why you keep trying to deny this. YU is proudly M.O. (“Nowhere but Here”), and M.O. has different “standards” than traditional Orthodoxy does.January 7, 2013 11:56 pm at 11:56 pm #919642
Yes, they are proudly MO, but no, they have no less halachik. Standards.
Could you give an example of such tznius issues?January 8, 2013 9:24 am at 9:24 am #919643
I doubt you believe that their halachic standards are “no less”, but, just in case, here is one small example, off-hand.
On the official YU blog, there is a video of an interview of a bunch of students, both male and female. Instead of interviewing them separately, or at least separating them to the greatest extent possible, they are interspersed male and female around one table. If anyone setting up this event cared about/had the proper sensitivity for tznius, then a different arrangement would have been made. After all, YU does maintain a school for each gender. So there’s no reason there couldn’t have been separate contingents from each school. Unless they intentionally wanted to mix them and convey that. That’s one point.
At certain points in the video you can easily observe one of the young women dressed not 100% appropriately and you can also observe one young woman laughing and, while seated, clearly leaning over and closer to “falling” into an unsuspecting young man next to her. Considering her hair was uncovered, I would be dan LiKaf zichus that she is not married to anyone including this young man. Therefore, in addition to the public impropriety of behaving this way regardless of marital status, since there was a man seated next to her it is that much worse. That’s a second point.
To the scoffers who will say I am making too much out of this, they are missing the point entirely (as scoffers often do).
I didn’t say this was on the level of that piece by the prutza who proudly advertised her znus in a long article for the Beacon, whose Torah Umada or cultural sensitivities evidently made them conclude it was appropriate to publish this and broaden this chilul Hashem. This video is very far from that, of course.
But since you asked about standards, I answered about standards. As YU proudly proclaims, that standard is “Nowhere but Here”, as in YU.
So please be honest. If you like YU’s derech and think its liberties are muttar, then that’s your choice. If you think it’s perfectly halchicly acceptable to review bars/pubs in a YU (student) publication and talk about being “hit on”, then that’s also your choice. But please don’t falsely characterize their MO standards as Orthodox when those standards are, instead, only MO and NOT traditional Orthodox.January 8, 2013 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #919644
Hakatan: I think Matan1 stated HALACHIK standards. Yes, while you may feel having opposite genders sitting around the table is not up to your Standards and the Yeshiva standards, it in no way reflects any halachik standards that are inferior. Halachikly, there is no issue. Our Gedolim went to weddings with mixed genders where everyone is dressed up, here in a college environment, I would have to assume it is much better. In addition, while the Yated and Hamodea might not give reviews on Pubs, again, halachiklly there is no issue.
I also think the whole tznius conversation is a mute point to make since tznius is not a way of dress which a lot of people are mistakenly assume. Tznius is a way of life which incorporates attitude, dress, conversations etc in any given society. For example, go to Yemen and your wife, daughter or mother would be considered untznius in the Jewish community. You can argue about your Rosh Yeshivous and Gedolim say they are tzniusdik, but to them, you are not tznius and they would probably not marry into your family for being MO. Or closer to home, if your wife does not wear a hat on top of her shaitel, she is untzneus according to the Munkatch Chassdism.
So while you might not agree with the YU/MO derech, it is a halachiklly permitted derech. True, it is not the Yeshiva Derech, but it is nonetheless a derech to Hashem.January 8, 2013 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #919645PatriMember
The YU derech includes such things as what was published in YU’s Beacon discussing having znus.January 8, 2013 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #919646
Patri: Sorry, I have never read the YU Beacon, but I am surpised you have. Do you usally read magazines that write about znus? Can I interest you in a R’Chaim instead? I think R’Chaim is a lot more interesting and challenging.January 8, 2013 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #919647
Patri: As a follow up, if you need to read YU content, please visit http://www.yutorah.org/index.cfm which is run my Rabbonim and not college kids.January 8, 2013 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #919648
I couldn’t have said it better myself
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