October 4, 2017 3:02 am at 3:02 am #1378402
Yesterday, I had a rare occurrence, for I was snacking on some Multigrain Cheerios.
In the middle of saying the food bracha, I got distracted and am mistakenly said “shehakol,” instead of “mezonos.”
When I was done, I didn’t know whether to say the after bracha for shehakol, or for mezonos. I was in doubt, so I left the entire after bracha out.
Thank you ☺October 4, 2017 8:25 am at 8:25 am #1378469☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
The correct after-bracha for a specific food cannot change.October 4, 2017 8:25 am at 8:25 am #1378472
Make the proper brocha achrona – Ahl HamichyaOctober 4, 2017 9:40 am at 9:40 am #1378525DovidBTParticipant
To atone for your sin, you should spend an hour a day for the next month studying the laws of blessings. 😉October 4, 2017 10:45 am at 10:45 am #1378534
You cant always ask your LOR
Yesterday I was in the supermarket parking lot unloading my shopping cart and these 2 women (Probably a mother and daughter) and the older woman asks me if she can have the shopping cart (I was done with it) and I gave it to her.
She then told me she was a holocaust Survivor (She sounded like an old jewish grandmother) and insisted on giving me a brocha. Being that she was a survivor she must have been close to 90 or higher. I mean she really wanted to give me a brocha, Like put her hand on my head and give me a Brocha. The other woman (probably her daughter) was looking horrified.
So I ask the Oilam, What would you do if some 90ish year old woman insisted on putting her hand on your head to give you a brocha. You cant ask your LOR there is no timeOctober 4, 2017 11:58 am at 11:58 am #1378605
Well is she is a survivor……..I would let her give me the brocha anyway she wanted.October 4, 2017 12:05 pm at 12:05 pm #1378611JosephParticipant
Survivors are exempt for halacha?
All the survivors I know well are meticulous with halacha. And if they are mistaken and are corrected, they are very happy to be told the correct halacha.October 4, 2017 12:25 pm at 12:25 pm #1378621MenoParticipant
Multigrain cheerios contain a lot of stuff other than oats (corn, rice. etc). It’s possible that the brocha acharona is actually borei n’fashos even if the brocha rishona is mezonos.October 4, 2017 12:37 pm at 12:37 pm #1378622DovidBTParticipant
What if she’s a sorceress?October 4, 2017 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #1378627
meno: according to the Star-K “CEREALS AND THEIR BRACHOS LISTING” (located on the Star-K website) the brocha rishona is Mezonos and the brocha achrona is Al Hamichya.October 4, 2017 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #1378629
Since she said she was a survivor, she was likely quite old and didnt have all her senses (It sort of seemed that way to me)
So Joseph what would you have told a 90ish woman who said they were a surivivor that likely didnt have all their senses if they wanted to put their hand on your head to give you a BrochaOctober 4, 2017 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #1378635LubavitcherParticipant
Depends the multi grain cheerios you say a mezoinois but u bentch boirei nifusheoisOctober 4, 2017 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #1378650JosephParticipant
What would you have told a 90ish woman who said they were a surivivor that likely didnt have all their senses if they wanted you to make a brocho l’vatala or wanted you to put a Chumash in the beis hakisei?October 7, 2017 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #1378657YesOrNoParticipant
You should have given her Multi Grain Cheerios to hold in her hand and make a Brocho on them.
Or when she wants to put her hand on your head (or shake your hand) just say, “I’ll take your word for it!”October 7, 2017 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #1378658lesschumrasParticipant
Joseph, you do realize that many survivors are not religious. Survivors who abandoned frumkeit cannot be rebuked by anyone who didn’t go thru the Holocaust.October 7, 2017 9:40 pm at 9:40 pm #1378714
Thank you! So, from what I understand, regardless of the before bracha, the proper thing to do was to then finish eating with the appropriate after bracha — and that is because (guessing here), each mitzvah has its own merit.
Even if I messed up on the first mitzvah of saying the right bracha before eating, saying the after bracha is an independent mitzvah.October 7, 2017 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #1378777
I cant say for sure, but it was in the parking lot of a frum store and the woman and her daughter looked frum (They were wearing hats)October 7, 2017 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #1378807
770chabad: and what is your source that you say borie nefoshas on multigrain cheerios? The Star-K says it’s Al Hamichya.October 7, 2017 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #1378804☕️coffee addictParticipant
Did you touch her or were you passive?
Additionally I once helped an old lady cross the street and I asked my rebbe afterwards and he told me you would be a chassid shoteh if you didn’t help herOctober 8, 2017 8:45 am at 8:45 am #1378845
I didnt touch her, I was passiveOctober 16, 2017 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #1382564
LB – I am very impressed! Since you weren’t sure which bracha to make, you did the correct thing and didn’t make a bracha at all, rather than run the risk of a bracha l’vatala.
As you correctly pointed out in another thread, when you are not sure if you should be making a bracha or not (and have no way to find out), it is better to not make a bracha than to run the risk of making a bracha l’vatala.
I happen to think that this is an extremely difficult (although very important) halacha to keep. The natural instinct is to make a bracha even when there is a doubt rather than not say a bracha at all. Not saying a bracha feels very uncomfortable.
Personally, I find that not saying a bracha when there is doubt is a very big nisayon, so I am impressed. Shkoyach!October 16, 2017 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #1382582
Wow ZD – that’s an awkward situation to be in! I have been in somewhat similar situations a few times. You are right – there is no way to ask a sheilah and you have no choice but to “posken” for yourself. In some cases, I “poskened” one way and in others the other way, depending on the specifics of the situation.
In at least one case, I found out afterwards that I did the right thing. In others, I still don’t know.
One case that still bothers me was similar to yours. I was making a shiva call to a not-Frum family, and the father of the nifter wanted to shake hands with me. I politely said that I don’t shake hands with men. This usually goes over well, especially with Israelis. However, the problem was that the immediate relative whom I had come with had just shaken hands with him. So he looked insulted when I said that.
As soon as I left, I asked the relative why she did that. She responded that she wasn’t thinking, and she felt bad because he was a holocaust survivor and he had just lost his son.
The difference between my situation and yours is that I would have been an active participant and you would have been passive, so I would think that yours would be less problematic. On the other hand, in your case, could you have politely requested that she put her hands above your head (as opposed to on your head)?October 19, 2017 9:27 pm at 9:27 pm #1387354
Thank you LU 💜🌷🌴🍓🌻
It is hard to not say a bracha; so what I do instead is say something like, “Thank you Hashem for this food,” which let’s me express my gratitude.October 19, 2017 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #1387363
Great idea! 🙂
I really do find it a big challenge, personally.October 20, 2017 1:50 am at 1:50 am #1387444🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
If you have a food with an unknown, the best thing to do is find two other foods to make brachos on, that cover the possible brachos of the food you had, and include it that way. So if you have cheesecake that may be al hamichya or borei nefashos, eat some mezonos and some shehakol and have in mind that the cheesecake is covered. It is best not to forgo a bracha at all if you have a means of making one.October 20, 2017 7:58 am at 7:58 am #1387450☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
You’re not allowed to eat without saying a brachah. If you don’t know the correct brachah, find out, otherwise eat something else or don’t eat.
LB was referring to a brachah acharonah, after she had already eaten, so not eating wasn’t an option. However, she should have called a rav, or at least some type of Bais Horaah (or perhaps look it up on a reliable website). I don’t know if any if those options were available to her, though.October 20, 2017 9:17 am at 9:17 am #1387484🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
or do the suggestion I made above. (I should have stated so specifically but I was referring to bracha acharona as well)October 20, 2017 9:43 am at 9:43 am #1387514
The lady didnt seem to be all there. I was significally taller than her so Im not sure she could have just put her hand over my head. However my hair is a little bushy so its likely she just touched my hair and not my head anywayOctober 22, 2017 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #1388078
ZD – if you were passive, what is the sheilah? Is it that she asked you first, so you could have said “yes” or “no”? Or she didn’t ask you, but you could have spoken up before she did it?
I’m not a Poseik and I don’t know what the correct thing to do would have been, but under the circumstances, having to make an immediate decision, and not having anyone to ask, it sounds like you acted admirably under the circumstances. I would be curious to know what a reliable halachic authority would say about it.
Regarding my previous question though, could you have bent down or sat down?October 22, 2017 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #1388092
It was in the middle of a parking lot after the lady took my shopping cart. I stooped over for her.
I cannot say what a posek would have said because they were not there, especially given IMO the lady’s mental condition which seemed weal and I am fairly certain she was religious as her daughter looked relgious and was a bit horrified at the who incident.
I dont even know if she was a holocaust survivor or not, but she was definatly old enough to be one and spoke with an Alter Heim accidentOctober 22, 2017 10:41 pm at 10:41 pm #1388060
“You’re not allowed to eat without saying a brachah. If you don’t know the correct brachah, find out, otherwise eat something else or don’t eat.”
Who/what was this in response to?
“However, she should have called a rav, or at least some type of Bais Horaah (or perhaps look it up on a reliable website). I don’t know if any if those options were available to her, though.”
I was assuming that those options weren’t available or she would have done so. (or at the very least – they were available, but for some reason, she didn’t think of it or was uncomfortable).
In any case, for whatever reason, she apparently felt like like her only options were either: a) not making a bracha, or b) making a guess as to which bracha to say.
Since, (for whatever reason) she felt as though those were her only 2 options, she did the correct thing by choosing a) even though it would have been very tempting to choose b), and some might have done so, so I felt it deserved commendation.
I wasn’t getting into what she should do in the future, since I thought it was important to first praise her for acting correctly in this case, based on her current knowledge.
And btw, I would be a bit hesitant about the website idea. And hasn’t that already been discussed?October 22, 2017 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #1388123☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Who/what was this in response to?
but for some reason, she didn’t think of it or was uncomfortable
Here we go again with your emotional heterim. Being uncomfortable is a valid excuse to skip a brachah acharonah?
I would be a bit hesitant about the website idea.
I don’t think checking the Star K brachos list is any worse than calling some random rav on a halachah hotline.June 12, 2022 10:58 am at 10:58 am #2095703limnos yameinuParticipant
1- An interesting fact about about many cereals, including Cheerios is that while still %100 MEZONOS and Al hamichya they are holding on to that level, at least for now. You see, due to modern day health attitude ( not up for discussion whether correct or not,it is what it is) that flour is no good they just write whole grain oats. Real oats or wheat, as in nature bars are usually paskened as haadama. However they obviously have found some type of loophole which allows them to basically grind it but not enough that legally they have to write flour. Halachically it’s still ground and is MEZONOS but there’s no telling what the next fad shall bring. Obviously even if by accident one said shehakol the bracha after is Al hamichya.
2- It is a wonderful thing when someone, especially a survivor, wants to bless you. Livin’ down South we actually bang into bible respecting individuals who want to bless you so that they too should be blessed,as it says by Avraham. You didn’t say clearly that she felt she needed to put her hands on your head and men- women issue was involved. Could’ve smiled and told her great thank you very much just no need to touch,if you wish you can hover. I will respond amen and bless you as well. With such words she would be quite happy and would not force touching.
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