Trump America First or aging lunatic??

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  • #2564281
    pure yiddishkeit
    Participant

    What is going on,
    1) Is Tump merely religiously devoted to America first, and that is what is primarily behind this Iran deal,
    or,
    2) Being effectively “controlled” by other opinions around him,
    or,
    3) has done a 180 on his core principals, and is just trying to get out of a mess he sees no real way out of?

    P.S. This is nothing to do with israel or zionism, just Trump per se.

    #2564518
    qwertyqwerty
    Participant

    As a hard-core Trump supporter, I think what happened is:

    1 – Trump always was America First. Everything he does is based on what is best for America.

    2 – In general, Trump loves Jews. He always did, and always will. He has many Jewish children and grandchildren. He loves Jews because they’re smart businessmen and he’s hung around them all his life in NYC, and worked with them, did deals with them, and they made him feel good being around them.

    3 – In general, Trump loves Arabs. He always did, and always will. He loves Arabs because they have a lot of money and they shower that money on him and on America.

    4 – In Trump’s mind, all people are equal. He doesn’t see any difference between innocent Jews and innocent Arabs. The only reason he supports Israel is because he believes Israel is the innocent party in the Arab-Israeli wars, and especially in the Gaza-Hamas war. But Hamas bombing innocent Israeli civilians is no different than Israel bombing innocent Lebanese civilians, in his mind.

    5 – Because Trump sees Israel as the innocent party in the Arab-Israeli wars, he supports Israel 100%. But we (frum Jews) mistake his support for Israel as a complete pro-Israel ideology. But this is wrong; Trump doesn’t ideologically support Israel. Trump supports Israel as much as he supports Egypt, Turkey, Qatar, and Pakistan. In his mind, they are all innocent.

    6 – Because Trump doesn’t ideologically support Israel, he just supports Israel when he believes they’re innocent, whenever he thinks Israel did something wrong, like bomb innocent civilians in Lebanon, he will call Israel out on it. He doesn’t take into account how antisemites will use his words to attack Israel.

    7 – Trump doesn’t understand the terrorist mindset. He thinks they are rational players and he can negotiate with them. Because of this, if Iran says they will sign a deal to end nuclear weapons, Trump assumes they will abide by the deal. Or if Hizballah agrees to a cease fire, Trump assumes they will mostly keep to the terms of the agreement, as all gentlemen do. Boy is he wrong, and I believe he will be in for a rude awakening very soon.

    8 – But because Trump has this warped understanding of the terrorist mindset, he believes Iran wants peace. But Israel knows better, and Israel knows that the peace deal with Iran isn’t worth the piece of paper its written on. Therefore Israel is against the peace deal. Trump, on the other hand, believes Iran wants peace, and now sees Israel as refusing peace. This makes Israel no longer the innocent party vs. Iran. And as stated before, Trump always supports the innocent party.

    9 – JD Vance has his own cheshbonos and is pandering to the Tucker Carlson wing of the Republicans, who see Israel as the aggressor. When Trump decided that Israel doesn’t want peace and Iran does, suddenly Trump realizes that “JD Vance was right all along that Israel is the problem”.

    10 – Summary: Trump loves Jews and loves Arabs, and always will. He will always support the “innocent party” in any conflict. In the Israel-Hamas conflict, Trump rightfully views Israel as the innocent party. In the Israel-Hizballah conflict, Trump rightfully views both Israel and Lebanese civilians as innocent (but not Hizballah). In the Israel-Iran conflict, Trump viewed Israel as the innocent party until last week, but now views Iran as the innocent party because Iran supposedly is ready for peace while Israel is not. This is being amplified by JD Vance. Hopefully Trump will wake up soon, and JD will be sidelined for the Rubio wing of the party.

    We must remember that Trump doesn’t ideologically support Israel. He will not rebuild the Bais Hamikdosh for us. In his mind, we are equal to everyone else. Trump said all along that he wants to be a peacemaker because he is fair and partial to all sides. If and when this war with Iran is resolved, and Trump turns his attention to making peace with the Palestinians, he will treat Israel as equal to the Palestinians (because he doesn’t understand the Palestinian mindset) and will demand concessions from both sides. The side that doesn’t make concessions will lose their “innocent” status in his mind, and will be called out on it. It won’t mean that Trump became an antisemite. It will only mean that he sees Palestinians as more “innocent” than Israel. So we need to be ready for this.

    I remain a hard-core Trump supporter, because I still believe that he is the best option for America. He is also the best option for Israel. And in those conflicts where he views Israel as innocent, he supports Israel 10000000%. I’m sad that he doesn’t understand the terrorist mindset when it comes to negotiating with Israel, and that because of this he doesn’t view Israel as innocent when it comes to Iran. But I’m happy that when he does see Israel as innocent, he supports Israel 1000000%.

    Thats my take.

    #2564519
    SR
    Participant

    1. America First would mean not entering into this agreement because Iran will use the time and money it is getting to develop ballistic missiles which can reach the US (it already has ballistic missiles which can reach Paris) and will develop nuclear weapons to put on the ballistic missiles

    2. He is not controlled by others because he is smarter than anyone else (that’s what he believes). His Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense and CIA Director are against the deal. The CIA Director is most significant because the intelligence community has gathered intelligence showing that Iran has no intention of abandoning its nuclear ambitions.

    3. The only core principle that Trump has is pro-Trump. If he believes it will help Trump he will do it.

    4. It’s Trump per se. He is not an aging lunatic. He has always been a lunatic.

    #2564575
    DovidBT
    Participant

    Because of this, if Iran says they will sign a deal to end nuclear weapons, Trump assumes they will abide by the deal.

    I’m also a Trump supporter. He’s the best President the U.S. has had in decades.

    He’s not assuming that Iran will abide by the deal. The deal is flexible enough that he can take action if Iran violates the provisions.

    He’s spent his life making deals, and knows what he’s doing.

    #2564612
    Happy new year
    Participant

    JD Vance

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