Trump, Boro Park and our children

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  • #1915056
    Slimshim1
    Participant

    Ego, greed, anger, jealousy, baal taava, the list of ethical and moral traits can go on. You could say he’s the best policy president ever but he is a mushchis. A bully. A liar (don’t say every politician is a liar. There is barely anything that comes out of his mouth that is true). A lack of empathy. He doesn’t admit when he is wrong. Nor does he apologize. His best friends are garbage. He is everything that I would have gotten my mouth washed out with soap, hit by my Rebbe and parents and kicked out of yeshiva for. Every shmuez I have ever heard has something that has taught me not to be like this man. He stands for everything the Torah doesn’t. It’s one thing to vote for him b’shev v’al taaseh. It’s another b’kum v’aseh. Go ahead Boro park, put Trump signs everywhere. Teach your children that he’s a role model. Hang his picture next to the Chofetz Chaim. Kids can smell hypocrisy a million miles away. They read their parents like a coloring book. It makes it worse when it’s over cholent and bein gavra l’gavra. In a few years you will be crying to Hashem why they go OTD as teenagers. It is a chillul Hashem of the greatest magnitude.
    Please don’t deflect and tell me what Biden stands for. We as Jews have voted for many a democrat when it suited us. Maybe that’s why we need to quarantine. Some hisbodedus wouldn’t be a bad idea right now.

    #1915104
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Slimshim1, Bravo, well expressed. I agree with everything said.

    #1915107
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant
    #1915109
    smerel
    Participant

    I’m no major Trump supporter but even the most ardent frum Trump supporters I know of don’t consider him to be a tzadik. To put it mildly. No one is putting his picture on their walls.

    On a more personal note to you Mr. Slimshim1, I suspect that your hatred for Trump isn’t really because Trump is evil personified but rather because the liberal media TOLD you that he is evil personified, Meaning that you are probably someone who ingested more than a healthy share of the what our enemies in the liberal media who are also enemies of Trump say about him.

    The more frum crowd is simply less aware of the sordid parts of Trump. They don’t have social media accounts, they don’t follow him on Twitter , they have no idea about what the enemies of Torah who are also enemies of Trump are saying. Their new source is The Yated.

    You probably be better off Chinuch wise following their example.

    #1915111
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    lets see, the prior president was a Arabist who never held a Job in his life that was not at the public trough, prior to that it was someone who had overcame a drinking problem, the prior president was a corrupt womanizer who had a affair right in the White House [Lewinsky], JFK, FDR, Warren Harding and Woodrow Wilson all had affairs while in the in the White House, Grover Cleveland had a child out wedlock.
    Please these people are not Rosh Yeshivas, they are mere mortals who Hashem chose to lead this nation, I told my kids Hashem is the melech malchay hamlechom and He will decide who will win, we have to do our histadlus and vote.

    #1915115

    I think we need to teach children that we learn from teachers, not politicians. We do not worship those politicians, be them Trump, Obama, FDR, Trotsky. We also need to teach kids to critically evaluate sources and acknowledge truth instead of parroting any party line.

    Until the recent mishugas, my kids did not know my political positions well. I made a couple of them listen to the last policy debate (Obama-Romney). We did it on the radio to avoid visuals. Obama lost their vote when he proposed hiring 100,000 math teachers!

    #1915137
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Slim- When a lecture turns to spewing it is obvious that it’s about emotions and not facts. Sorry he doesn’t support some of the causes that are important to you, sorry someone so disgusting is the better choice. Hypocrisy sending kids off the derech? Interesting you listed this as a trump issue…

    #1915141
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    common saychel, the problem is that Trump publicizes his bad behavior but other president did not.

    #1915142
    Slimshim1
    Participant

    Common, you lost your argument when you suggested that someone who overcame addiction, as a negative trait. That is one of the greatest strengths a person can have no matter what the addiction. (Please don’t ever say that out loud). Obama not having a job before? I didn’t vote for him, but not because of that reason. I couldn’t care less if he was employed. Yes, Clinton was a philanderer and I didn’t vote for him. I didn’t vote for any democrat. And that’s not even the point here, taavahs nashim is one aspect which is probably the least of my issues with him.

    Syag – Why is Biden disgusting? As an aside, he lost his wife and child in a car crash and had to raise 2 children through that. He lost another son just a few years back. He brings people who are down up. That’s strength to me.

    Smerel and Syag – Of course there’s emotions involved here. But as a result of facts. What did I write that isn’t true. No comment has yet bothered to say. And to suggest that the viewers of TYW and “the more frum” know less; please, how many are listening to Rush Limbaugh every day at work or peeking at a streaming Fox News. The kids pick up on it just the same.

    Syag – yes, religious hypocrisy is one of the main reasons why kids go off. Of course there are other means of hypocrisy. And duh as to why I used Trump as an example. That’s who I was talking about and that’s the topic of 75% of the coffee room.

    Always ask… thank you for your honest post and lol on the math. 🙂

    Reb Eliezer – thank you.

    #1915149
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Slim- forgive my fractured format, cut and paste makes for too long posts.
    Yes I know about Biden’s loses, it breaks my heart every time I see his face. And of course it is strength but so irrelevent to this election and this discussion.

    I agree whole heartedly with your addiction comment!!!!

    I think your response to smerel and I is more to him. None of it sounds familiar to my comments. And not sure what the kids would be picking up on, or how listening to news is hypocracy. I do see lots of the people who support liberalism while considering themselves frum are displaying more hypocracy. They may not be supporting a menuval (I don’t support the people, I support their positions) but they are rooting for many issues that are against torah values. That is more of a problem of chinuch than the reverse. And I think you know that.

    Of course that is just my opinion, I don’t expect it to change your mind as this has all been spat across all the threads from BOTH sides of the aisle for years now, and not much has changed.

    Looking very forward to more important discussions in the near future, Please Gd

    #1915146
    ted cruz for prrez
    Participant

    i am going to say it even though you said not to- all politicians are liars. and by the way every shmuez on hakaras hatov i heard taught me to thank people for the good they do for us even if they did for themselves and even if they are a horrible person.

    #1915157
    Slimshim1
    Participant

    Syag. I was commenting about the idea that you mentioned emotions as if that were the opposite of facts. I read it now and I see what you were talking about Trump being the disgusting one, yet seeing it as ok to vote for him. My bad.
    The same way some are saying that they choose to vote for policy even though someone is disgusting, I can have the opinion that sometimes you have to over look policy and vote for the mentsch,
    Ted – There’s a fine line betweene being makir tov and having Schweky redo one of his songs saynig how amazing Trump is and having 70,000 people watch it on youtube. That and having rallys and signs in frum communities.

    #1915158
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    “….every shmuez on hakaras hatov i heard taught me to thank people for the good they do for us even if they did for themselves and even if they are a horrible person…”

    Very interesting shitah on “hakaras hatov” that suffers from one potentially fatal (literally) flaw. That horrible person who does something good for yidden one day because his serves his own agenda is not operating on the basis of any principles or civil/social norms and just as easily turn against us in an instant when it serves his interests. Yidden have seen this movie before at various points in history when some of the worst despots and tyrants in history who initially tolerated their Jewish citizens have adopted the most anti-semitic positions with tragic consequences.

    #1915219
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @slimshim, the reason I mentioned GW Bush drinking problem is to illustrate that presidents are mere mortals with all that entails and that presidents who the frum community supported had issues at some point in life.
    @Reb Eliezer, are you kidding? Whitewater and the Lewinski scandals were kept private? those were the tough ones trying to explain to the kids why the president was being impeached. BTW Grover Cleveland acknowledged paternity during the campaign.

    #1915246
    smerel
    Participant

    Personal question for you Mr Slimshim1.

    Do you also write such rants against people who allow their children to follow sports or even worse, other parts of the entertainment world ?

    Some of the sports figures (I won’t even mention the movie stars) display a lot worse behavior than Trump. And unlike Trump they have no redeeming factors.

    With all the criticism I see of frum Trump supporters claiming Trump is a bad influence his critics never rant against the entertainment world.

    #1915250
    ted cruz for prrez
    Participant

    Gadolhadorah why would the fact that they might change for the worse mean you shouldn’t thank them. thanking people doesn’t equal relying on them for help

    #1915263
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Balak was rewarded with Ruth because his actions were from fear.

    #1915254
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    When it comes to hakoras hatov intentions do matter. Moshe Rabbenu was afraid of Og king of Bashan for saving Lot and he was told not to be afraid because his intention was that Avraham get killed to marry Sarah.

    #1915280
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Ted Cruz: You namesake has vilified Trump as a “pathological liar”, “sniveling coward”, “utterly lacking in morality”, and “dangerous” to our national security. While I’m not a big Ted cruz fan, hew was RIGHT but he too succumbed to self-interest and has jumped on the train because it serves his near-term political interests. Sorry, but I don’t buy the “hakaras hatov” argument in relation to Trump’s photo-op, self-serving “gifts” to yidden.

    #1915275
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Eliezer. Interesting moshol on hakoras hatov. Some of us do fear Trump’s maniacal narcissism and how that night trigger some incredibly horrific consequences for yidden and our country overall. Most here in the CR don’t share those concerns and indeed, anticipate even worse consequences under Biden. While I strongly disagree with some of the anti-Israel policies under Obama (where Biden was there as VP) on an overall basis, I fear Trump considerably more than a Biden administration. If he is elected, I hope to be proven wrong.

    #1915278
    ted cruz for prrez
    Participant

    yet og was was still rewarded with a very long life for what he did but because it was for a bad reason he did not get the full reward which is why moshe was able to kill him at that point. which just proves the point even more

    #1915295
    se2015
    Participant

    Ted, that just proves that doing something for the wrong reasons merits reward. Where do we express hakaras hatov to Og? We owe more hakaras hatov to the egyptian dogs than to Og.

    #1915294
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    GH, see what I wrote why Trump might be winning: https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/trump-winning

    #1915291
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Quite a number of Jews supported Ted Kennedy who had zero morals, please explain that

    #1915301
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The above about Balak fearing harm to himself is said by the Maharsha Horiyus (10,2).

    #1915305
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    common saychal, do you read posts? The only case was the Chappaquiddick incident that I know of.

    #1915319
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @Reb E, oh I get it, driving off a bridge while drunk with a girl while married is 100% ok.

    #1915323
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    common saychal, where is your common saychal? You said zero morals? Even Trump cares for his family. He did not drive off on purpose but was drunk. He should not have escaped. What did Trump tbe playboy do while married? Over twenty five accusations. If no smoke, no fire.

    #1915325
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @Reb E,
    What do the following names have in common?
    Juanita Brodderick
    Leslie Millweee
    Paula Jones
    Kathleen Wiley
    Monica Lewinsky

    #1915326
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Whitewater and Lewinsky was publicized by the press. Mechalel shabbos openly is considered doing it lehaches whereas privately is letaovan.

    #1915332
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    common saychal, how do you know about all those people?

    #1915351
    Slimshim1
    Participant

    smerel – there is a contant deflection when it comes to this question. This is actually a Donald Trump methodology. Don’t focus on the issue at hand, deflect to another party that is wrong. You don’t even know if I have children altogether. Again, this is being brought up because we are in an election and coming down to the wire. I am not listing everyone I think is a lowlife in this thread.

    #1915463
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @Reb E, so Clinton got bad press and Trump had friendly press? ROFL

    #1915480
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    You are missing the point. Trump publicizes on his own his bad behavior and being proud of it.

    #1915501
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Should be above, Trump publicizes his own bad behavior and being proud of it.

    #1915504
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @Reb E, there has not been a President with dignity since Ronald Regan, they are mere mortals with all that it entails, we are not electing a cohen godal

    #1915508
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Trump engages in boorish, vulgar, racist and misogynistic speech and behavior which sadly seems to energize a certain portion of the electorate,, many of whom see their own inner thoughts and feelings “legitimized” because they are coming from the President. The toxicity he has introduced into our political system will take a decade to revers

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