September 22, 2022 10:01 am at 10:01 am #2127253
Not for nothing we say דברים שבלב אינן דברים, when it comes to human beings, what one thinks does not mean anything. No one knows what the other is thinking.September 22, 2022 12:41 pm at 12:41 pm #2127335
I have not seen or listened to Trump’s interview and the only information I have about this is from what the media is reporting. However, I don’t think there is a formal process of declassifying documents, nor does it require a declassification stamp. This is something that was never really clarified in the past. The President may at his own discretion declassify documents, but there is no actual process that he is required to follow. Can he simply tell his staff that it’s declassified? Can he simply tell himself that it is declassified? Does he need to make a note or mark it as declassified?
Another thing that is interesting is, I don’t believe that Trump actually packed his own boxes and schlepped all those boxes out of the WH, he is a man of means and probably had other staff do it. There are lawyers and protocol people on staff that participate in everything that happens in the WH. This does not make him innocent, but it may complicate the story. He may not even have had any knowledge about the specifics of what was removed from the WH.September 22, 2022 12:41 pm at 12:41 pm #2127337September 22, 2022 12:41 pm at 12:41 pm #2127339yehudyParticipant
on the other hand הפריש תרומה במחשבתו ולא הוציא בשפתיו כלום הרי זו תרומהSeptember 22, 2022 12:42 pm at 12:42 pm #2127342
Declassification is done for everyone.September 22, 2022 12:42 pm at 12:42 pm #2127360Dr. PepperParticipant
At least he thinks. (That’s much more than you can say for your leader.)September 22, 2022 1:23 pm at 1:23 pm #2127374
yehudi, you should have looked at my words clearly that I indicated when in comes human beings excluding towards Hashem who knows what you are thinking.September 22, 2022 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #2127379Amil ZolaParticipant
2cents. If you have access to the internet you can simply google the federal process for declassification of documents and the necessary procedures. You are far afield from the actual process.September 22, 2022 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #2127378
If declassified, it should be indicated on the document. Trumah should also be marked that one should not stumble.September 22, 2022 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #2127393moishekapoiehParticipant
i’m thinking donald j trump should be in jail
someone please check all jails to see in which one he is inSeptember 22, 2022 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #2127413
“ If declassified, it should be indicated on the document.”
Is that your assumption and practice or is that the set guidelines?September 22, 2022 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #2127437akupermaParticipant
If a statute (act of Congress, signed by the president) mere says the president can declassify documents without specifying a formal procedure, meaning they left it for the president to decide on the procedure (which would be the procedure under administrative law theory), then Trump as president could declassify by “thought” or more significantly, by physically removing the documents from the White House and taking them to his personal residence.
If the statute has a formal procedure that Trump didn’t follow, Trump doesn’t have a valid argument, since the president is subject to all statutes. However if the procedure is a matter of administrative law, the president has head of the administration can largely do anything he feels like unless it violates the constitution or a statute.
One should note that for most of the last 80 years, the Congress has tended to pass laws that tell the administration to make the rules to implement the law, and leave all the details to the administration (rather than putting the details in the statute).September 22, 2022 11:44 pm at 11:44 pm #2127509
RebE, to be precise he is quoted as saying:
” you can declassify just by saying ‘it’s declassified’ – even by just thinking about it.””.
Possibly first part is what he means, and the second part is a guzma.
As to the need for procedure, this is l’havdil medauraita/medrabanon issue: it may be a minor aveira to not follow instructions, but he can say that he came up with a different classification approach. This should, and probably will, go to the Supreme Court that is the right avenue to deal with Presidential powers, not local judges over the whole country attacking Trump like a pack of wolves.September 23, 2022 12:27 pm at 12:27 pm #2127616
If it is truly declassified like nuclear secrets, then anyone can handle it and our national security is endangered.September 23, 2022 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #2127636
I share your concerns, and a clear declassification process should be established.September 23, 2022 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #2127644
> If it is truly declassified like nuclear secrets
As a Rosh Hashana thread says – be positive. Should we worry about every newspaper headline that has no facts behind it?! What if T did this or that. Save your heartburn and prayers for real reshayim, like Putin who announced 2 days ago that he might respond to nuclear threats by his nuclear weapons.September 23, 2022 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #2127649
We have 9 b’Av because we were crying for no reason, and then we were told we will have the reason. Same about worrying about all the nonsense.
Modern life is full of distractions. In old times, I presu,e. when Babylonian army was coming your way, everyone was scared. Now we had people before WW2 worrying about this and that political silliness rather than preparing for a real threat. You don’t read about that much in history books, as if everyone was talking about important things. They were not, and needless worrying made people miss important things. Learn from those mistakes.September 25, 2022 10:14 am at 10:14 am #2127871moishekapoiehParticipant
someone please tell trump to think shana tovah umetukah
after all, he just thinks it, and it happens
oy.September 25, 2022 11:18 am at 11:18 am #2127912
moish, good point, we daven for it by enunciating through the mouth. The Teshuva Meahava, Rav Eliezer Flekels a talmid of the Nodah Beyehudah, asks why would Eli think that Chanah was drunk if they davened like that by just moving the mouth and not being heard? He explains that that we don’t completely follow her as when we pray we should hear it but not others.September 25, 2022 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm #2127956
It does start with the machshava … Compare this power of thought with a pathetic leader who makes pronouncements and the opposite happens: “Afg government will be stable”,”only minor incursion is allowed”, and now he is warning reshayim who threaten to use weapons with mass destruction. Given the track record, the world needs our tefilos to melch malchei hamlachim. as the regular melachim are clearly not there.September 28, 2022 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #2128203GadolhadorahParticipant
A condition precedent and requisite basis for the OP is the capacity to engage in rational thought.October 23, 2022 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #2131758MDshweksParticipant
Trump wasn’t “wild” at all! He was really saying that it’s declassified by מחשבה and מעשה together. By thinking and acting upon it in an obvious way. “Actions speak louder than words”. “מעשה מוציא מידי דיבור ומידי מחשבה”October 23, 2022 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #2131823
> He was really saying that it’s declassified by מחשבה and מעשה together.
Indeed, by raising the documents, he is performing meshihah and lawfully acquires them. “classified” simply means proprietary to US government. So, as T has a right to make them “unclassified”, in effect, hefker, and then acquire them, they are his. So, I suggest T takes USG to a beis din for arbitration and win using this argument.
There is also a problem with the government position: if they maintain that these documents are classified, then allowing them to be not a secure location for so long is a breach on their part. They should have investigated and sealed the documents on day one instead of sending polite emails. This is at least second case like that, see Hillary’s server, and these people should be fired, at least. Of course, if they are lying and the documents do not represent any danger, they should be fired also. So, in both cases, they are posul for edut.
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