Trump – Fascist Demagogue?

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  • #616804
    mw13
    Participant

    From CNN (and mind you, the following article was written before Trump’s new idea of banning all Muslims, solely based on their religion):

    Conservative warnings about Donald Trump have grown increasingly somber. At first he was just an entertainer; then he became a worrisome distraction, and soon, there was fear that he would permanently scar the reputation of the Republican Party.

    But it was after Trump started calling for stronger surveillance of Muslim-Americans in the aftermath of the Paris terrorist attacks that a handful of conservatives ventured to call Trump’s rhetoric something much more dangerous: fascism.

    Since launching his campaign this summer, the billionaire real estate magnate has regularly deployed inflammatory rhetoric about immigrants — particularly regarding Latinos — and repeatedly raised the alarm about foreigners entering the country. That has escalated following the series of shooting rampages and explosions in Paris this month allegedly perpetrated by ISIS and amid a national debate over accepting Syrian refugees.

    “Trump is a fascist. And that’s not a term I use loosely or often. But he’s earned it,” tweeted Max Boot, a conservative fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations who is advising Marco Rubio.

    “Forced federal registration of US citizens, based on religious identity, is fascism. Period. Nothing else to call it,” Jeb Bush national security adviser John Noonan wrote on Twitter.

    #1117634
    mw13
    Participant

    #1117635
    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    A bunch of Republican establishment members jumping on any excuse to criticize Trump? What’s new?

    Leftist media jumping on any excuse to criticize Trump? Again, what’s new?

    He is the only one in either party that is willing to put our national security before political correctness. This terrifies the left because they know it’s the opinion of the silent majority. Sure, a lot of leftists and establishment Republicans alike will criticize it, and probably criticize my very comment on this thread… Meanwhile, many people will read and say nothing, even though they agree with it. Invisible evidence of our lack of free speech. There’s a reason they call it the “silent” majority.

    #1117636
    DikDukDuck
    Participant

    I used to think he had a chance at winning but I don’t think anyone will vote for him now. Trump supporters of the other religion will probably vote for Cruz.

    Even if Trump wins I doubt Congress will let him do anything anyway.

    #1117637
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    How can a blocked user post?

    #1117638
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Trump is different from others. He even wears his hair differently. He is against people of certain races and religions. He rants about national security and making his country great again.

    #1117639
    Sam2
    Participant

    Trump is evil. I can’t believe that people don’t realize that refusing immigration and making people register based on religion, in America at least, is just evil.

    #1117640
    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    I guess I was blocked after that post. That’s the only logical explanation 😉

    #1117641
    Avi K
    Participant
    #1117642

    trump is a piece of free entertainment & was transferred from the political section of the news to the entertainment section already a few months ago.

    i will enjoy his entertainment until the last minute, but would never vote for him, vote for someone that uses his brains & doesn’t just talk out of his mouth “just so everyone should talk about him”

    in my case you ask, then why is he currently the top republican? cause Americans of today’s generation of technology etc… are going so nuts that they will say if we vote for him we will get 4 more years of his entertainment talks etc… NOW THAT’S INSANE but this is how we are thinking these days….

    may Hashem help everyone wake up & see which republican is REALLY talking with truth & meaning what he says etc… before its too late & elections happen.

    #1117643
    akuperma
    Participant

    A fascist believes in a strong government. Trump is more of an anarchist who likes to toss verbal bombs.

    There is also the element that is personal life doesn’t match his media persona, suggesting he is “in character” when he campaigns (not that other media people such as Franken and Reagan were able to transition, whereas Trump is still playing the character he developed for his TV show).

    #1117644
    rwndk1
    Member

    He is the only one who has the guts to say what is in the hearts and minds of most Americans. The more they try to shut him up with their leftist politically-correct rhetoric which puts lives in danger, the more popular he will be.

    #1117645
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Trump brings a positive to the table though. For too long public thinking and political correctness has swung way left. His faaaar right rhetoric is forcing discussion in this country and to some degree public thinking even among democrats is moving towards the center. Even our leftist president announced plans to review certain visa plans and programs currently in place.

    #1117646
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I don’t agree that we need to assume that he is evil. The reason he wants to discriminate against Muslims is not necessarily because he hates Muslims, perhaps he just has security concerns. Some may feel that the collateral damage of the innocent being included is not justified by those concerns, and/or that there are other ways of dealing with those concerns, and/or that it’s a slippery slope and ch”v we could be next, but disagreeing with those points doesn’t make him evil.

    #1117647
    Joseph
    Participant

    Judaism also discriminates based on a person’s religion.

    #1117648
    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph, that is private discrimination such as preferring Jews in hiring (if one has one’s own business). A government has no right to discriminate accept under very limited circumstances (e.g. a human sacrifice cult). Trump is today’s Gerald Burton Winrod ym”s (@DY). The same old junk in a new package. In fact, if gentiles have gilgulim (it is a machloket) I would guess that Trump is a gilgul of Winrod.

    #1117649
    justsmile613
    Participant

    Oh please..Trump is a good guy.He, along with millions of others are sick and tired of the direction of this country and the bought and paid for politicians who dont change anything. He has the guts and strenth to actually to something positive no matter what his opponents say. Is he a little over the top? yes. Is he a big shot/baal gaavah? def yes. But that is really irrelavent for a presidential candidate

    #1117650
    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Immigration to the US is a PRIVILEGE not a right. We have the right to open and close our borders to whoever, whenever we see fit. Thinking that our background checks are not good enough to sift out the radical Muslims (which clearly they aren’t. I mean come on) is not the same as hating Muslims and being evil. America has done such things many many times in the past. This idea that this “isn’t who we are” is entirely a fabrication of the liberal media and it’s apparently convinced many of the posters on this thread.

    Avi: “A government has no right to discriminate accept under very limited circumstances [sic]” Clearly Trump thinks (and he’s right) that we’re living in those circumstances. Would you say that if we got bombed by Syria that when we retaliate we would also have to bomb Europe to be fair and not discriminate? Please stop pretending that Muslims are a poor, undeserving, innocent group in this situation.

    #1117651
    lopman23
    Participant

    This was an example of how his inexperience as a politician can get him into trouble. There are ways of saying no more muslims allowed without actually saying open no more muslims allowed. Ask any friday night ezras nushim politician he could have said something like immigrants from high risk countries will have mandatory wait times before they can come here etc etc no reason to blurt it out. I think he killed his campaign there. Whether you agree with his muslim policy or not you cannot discriminate in such a transparent way. He will never be president either he will never win the election or never make it to the election through enough covert resources.

    #1117652
    Joseph
    Participant

    Avi: The Jewish governments discriminated in various actions based on a person’s religion.

    #1117653
    Avi K
    Participant

    Neville, you obviously have no idea as to the connotation of discrimination in this context. While you are correct that immigration to the US is a privilege and not a right it may not be directed against a broad religious group and certainly not against someone who is defined s a member of that group because of his national origin even though he might not be particularly religious (and Moslems have the same range as us – there have even been complaints about asking “Sheik Google” questions about Sharia). For example, someone who has expressed support for ISIS could and should be excluded. However, to make a blanket exclusion of Moslems (and BTW, he has also made racist attacks on other groups) is reprehensible. He obviously thinks that he is right but so did anti-Semites like Gerald Burton Winrod ym”s, who said “After observing the title of this book, some will accuse me of being anti-Semitic. If by this they mean that I am opposed to the Jews as a race or as a religion, I deny the allegation. But if they mean that I am opposed to a coterie of international Jewish bankers ruling the Gentile world by the power of gold, if they mean that I am opposed to international Jewish Communism, then I plead guilty to the charge.”

    The fact of the matter is that many bankers were Jewish and many Communists were Jewish. In fact, the atomic spies were all Jews. Many gangsters were also Jewish. Was the US right to exclude Jews seventy five years ago?

    #1117654
    mybrother
    Member

    How many thousand have to die before the sleeping citizens wake up and realize we’re at war with radical Islam.. Donald Trump is the only one with strength and stamina to fight the liberal propaganda which is destroying this country.. God bless trump! God bless America!

    TRUMP 2016!

    #1117655
    yytz
    Participant

    Trump is potentially dangerous, but I think he tends to talk more crazily than he acts (or will act) in practice. When you look at the details of his proposed policies they tend not to be that radical. Some are conservative and some are more middle of the road.

    We have millions of illegal immigrants every year, many of them dangerous convicted felons, and yet we do almost nothing to stop it. Everyone knows that this is a problem and that we have a build a wall to make our immigration system based on law and good administrative procedure. But everyone else is afraid to do it. So for that reason he could be a good president. If immigration is reduced as a result, this would lower the unemployment rate and thus help the poor.

    I don’t think he would actually ban all Muslim immigration. But reducing the numbers coming in so they can be carefully vetted would presumably happen, and there’s nothing inherently wrong or radical about reducing immigration or changing immigration policies based on valid economic or security concerns.

    Anyway, the important thing is if such policies are carried out, they need to be done with moderate and reasonable explanations, not with divisive rhetoric. Hopefully Trump will change his tone if he’s elected.

    #1117657
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    Trump is a classical fascist. Adulation of the “ONE” leader. The leader can do no wrong, his followers will excuse anything he does- including murder. He demonizes foreigners -see Hitler YMS-he ignores any democratic institutions….If Trump ever gets elected, he will stump all over Congress, he will ignore anyone else and vilify them-see his campaign-and his fascism will lead him to post-nazism. Be afraid, America, be very afraid…

    #1117658
    mw13
    Participant

    This idea that this “isn’t who we are” is entirely a fabrication of the liberal media and it’s apparently convinced many of the posters on this thread.

    The inscription on the Statue of Liberty reads:

    “Give me your tired, your poor,

    Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free,

    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,

    Send these, the homeless, tempest tost to me,

    I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

    #1117659
    mw13
    Participant

    First he came for the Hispanics; but I did not speak out, because I was not Hispanic.

    Then he came for the Muslims; but I did not speak out, because I was not a Muslim.

    #1117660
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Trump is today’s Gerald Burton Winrod ym”s (@DY).

    So I Googled him, and you are being ridiculous.

    #1117661
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    ROB, I didn’t need to Google Hitler. You are being even more ridiculous.

    Mw13, you seem to think his ideas are based on racism. That’s possible, but he has only “come for” groups he legitimately feels are damaging us.

    #1117662
    mybrother
    Member

    @mw13.

    1. This was written before the any government programs which most of these people leach onto.

    2. Presently there are terrorists amongst these poor masses that want to enter.. r u the genius who wants to wait until there’s a guy on your street with a machine gun screaming “alla huakbar!!!!”

    #1117663
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    If Trump is saying what is in the hearts and minds of most Americans, most Americans are idiots.

    #1117664
    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    First he came for the illegals, and I didn’t speak out be cause I don’t condone criminals.

    Then he came for the terrorists, and I didn’t speak out because I’m not a liberal terrorist sympathizer.

    Now my country is much safer.

    By: Neville ChaimBerlin.

    #1117665
    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Also, the US isn’t defined by a plaque on a French-made statue. We’re defined by our past actions, and what Trump is proposing is totally consistent with them.

    #1117666
    mw13
    Participant

    An op-ed from Peter Bergen:

    Is Donald Trump a fascist?

    To answer that question it is helpful to examine three interrelated phenomena: the history of European fascism, the rise of far-right nationalist parties around the West today and what historian Richard Hofstadter famously termed “the paranoid style in American politics.”

    Let’s start with the classic 2004 study “The Anatomy of Fascism” by American historian Robert Paxton, who examined the fascist movements of 20th-century Europe and found some commonalities among them. They played on:

    Trump’s ascendancy outside the structures of the traditional Republican Party and his clarion calls about America’s supposedly precipitously declining role in the world capture this trait well.

    Trump’s careless regard for the truth — such as his claims that thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheered the 9/11 attacks, or that Mexican immigrants are rapists and murders — and the trust he places in his own gut capture this well.

    Many in Trump’s base of white, working-class voters feel threated by immigrants, so Trump’s solution to that, whether with Mexico (build a wall) or the Islamic world (keep them out), speaks to them.

    This seems like quite a good description of Trump’s appeal.

    There is no hint that Trump wishes to engage in or to foment violence against the enemies, such as immigrants, he has identified as undermining the American way of life.

    One is therefore left with the conclusion that Trump is a proto-fascist, rather than an actual fascist. In other words, he has many ideas that are fascistic in nature, but he is not proposing violence as a way of implementing those ideas.

    So how else might we frame the Trump phenomenon? It’s useful to view in the context of the wave of the far-right nationalist movements that have swept Europe in recent years and that are defined by hostility to immigrants and minorities.

    Trump displays many of the traits of a proto-fascist, and he is also part of a wave of right-wing nationalist movements that is sweeping the West. He can also be positioned in the long, American right-wing tradition of fearing “the Other,” whether they are Catholics or Jews or, now, Muslims.

    If the party of Lincoln wishes to become the party of intolerance, selecting Trump to be its presidential candidate is a good way forward.

    #1117667
    Joseph
    Participant

    Avi: The US Supreme Court has upheld Congressional laws excluding Chinese and other Asians from immigrating to the U.S. And it has never been overturned. What Trump proposed, whether you agree or disagree with such a policy, is clearly Constitutional.

    The Supreme Court also upheld the internment of Japanese-Americans in its 1944 Korematsu decision, and that ruling has never been judicially reversed.

    #1117668
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    In the mashal about the housewife and the cat, his personality is more like the cat. He will always want to have someone to slam.

    #1117669
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    DaasYochid: see mw13.

    If you don’t like my comparison to Hitler yms how about “Il Duce”, Benito Mussolini? Or Franco, the poor man’s fascist.

    #1117670
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    See mw13 yourself.

    There is no hint that Trump wishes to engage in or to foment violence against the enemies

    This is even granting that he is a racist, which I don’t (although I do think it’s possible).

    #1117671
    Joseph
    Participant

    Ivanka is publicly supporting Donald’s candidacy.

    #1117672
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Neville ChaimBerlin,

    Also, the US isn’t defined by a plaque on a French-made statue. We’re defined by our past actions, and what Trump is proposing is totally consistent with them.

    1. The poem was written by Emma Lazarus, a Sefardic Jewish American poet whose family lived in the Americas since Colonial times. Part of her motivation for writing the poem was the plight of Ashkenazic emigrants from Russia due to pogroms. Nothing French about it. And the fact that it was selected for a plaque on one of the quintessential American national symbols speaks to the fact that it does represent American ideals.

    2. Past actions of Americans include slavery, Jim Crow, massacres of native Americans, forced sterilizations, etc. Does that define us in your mind? And since those atrocities were committed in the past, would that legitimize someone coming along and advocating for it today?*

    * NOTE: I am not implying that Trump has advocated for any of those things, rather I am applying your logic.

    #1117673
    Sam2
    Participant

    Trump’s immigration policies aren’t evil. His new Muslim policy is.

    mybrother: Being at war with radical Islam is not the same as being at war with all of Islam.

    #1117674
    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “If you don’t like my comparison to Hitler…”

    How ludicrous! Hitler killed millions! Franco’s regime saved tons of Jews from the Nazis. Revisionist historians want to put all of these men in the same boat so that it will fit their “dangers of conservatism” narrative. As Joseph pointed out, what Trump is proposing has been done in the US before. In fact, far worse has been done in the US. Trump isn’t trying to come to power by military coup. He is representing what he thinks is the majority opinion of the country, and putting national security before an imagined responsibility to help Muslims probably is the majority opinion in this country.

    “If Trump is saying what is in the hearts and minds of most Americans, most Americans are idiots.” This is liberalism in a nutshell. The assumption that most of the country is too stupid to govern themselves. Who’s the undemocratic one now? There’s nothing “fascist” about representing a majority of a democratic country. The only fascists on this thread are the ones saying their opinions outweigh the majority of the country.

    #1117675
    Health
    Participant

    To all: The same Zionists who post on YWN are criticizing Trump!

    What is it you all went to the same Communist or Socialist school?!?

    BTW, one thing you have in common – that you are all liars! All he said was to ban Muslims, temporarily. This is to start getting a hold of what’s going on in this world!

    The libs believe the Terrorism is ending, just give in to them. But in reality it’s the Beginning. Wake Up Libs!!!

    #1117676
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    Health: If you quote someone,do it accurately. Trump did NOT put any qualifier on his ban of ALL Moslems. He said “until we know what is gong on” which means never. He also asked to ban ALL Moslems, including citizens. Under intense attack, he softened his stance slightly but he is the same bigot he has always been.

    An, what has all this to do with Zionism???? Actually, your position on israel is the anti-thesis of Trump; you want the Moslems to take over israel!!!

    #1117677
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    NevilleChamberlin: Were you aware that Hitler yms came to power legitimately, through a democratic election? Same with Mussolini. Many dictators come to power through elections -see lenin- but then it is the last fair and open election. I am absolutely convinced that ,if in our nightmares, Trump is elected President, he will run rough shod over our democratic institutions and install himself as “Leader for Life”

    #1117678
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I am absolutely convinced that ,if in our nightmares, Trump is elected President, he will run rough shod over our democratic institutions and install himself as “Leader for Life”

    The radical right wackos said the same about Clinton and Obama.

    #1117679
    Health
    Participant

    Rob -“Health: If you quote someone,do it accurately. Trump did NOT put any qualifier on his ban of ALL Moslems. He said “until we know what is gong on” which means never. He also asked to ban ALL Moslems, including citizens. Under intense attack, he softened his stance slightly but he is the same bigot he has always been.”

    I’m not a mind reader like you! IDK that it means Never! It’s funny how the libs are attacking Trump, and Not the Demoncrats. The libs gave us a total of 8 years of Obama and the country is not any safer than it was before 9/11. What I do know is that if he was really the fascist like the libs say, he’d be calling for expulsion of all Muslims!

    This is a quote from CNN:

    “Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.”

    “An, what has all this to do with Zionism???? Actually, your position on israel is the anti-thesis of Trump; you want the Moslems to take over israel!!!”

    Obviously you don’t know my position on Israel because you’re to busy putting it down and screaming your Zionist views!

    I believe that main thing that should be done is to protect Jews!

    Either give it all to the Arabs or get rid of them from Israel, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq.

    #1117680
    homer
    Member

    Go take a look what (LIBERAL-NON DISCRIMINATORY) France is doing in the aftermath of their attacks.

    Closing down MOSQUES. huh?

    Yes. because wake the heck up EVEN France is starting to get it. Im not a Trump guy but please people, while your debating feelings (and law, politics, morals etc etc etc) they are trying to literally cut your head off. (or blow it off or shoot it off)

    (oh yeah btw, get a gun, before they show up in your neighborhood not AFTER)

    #1117681
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    If people were getting poisoned from poison hemlock would you start a war against the carrot family?

    #1117682
    Joseph
    Participant

    No, but I’d have the FDA ban all carrots not proven to be free of poison.

    #1117683
    mw13
    Participant

    by Matthew DesOrmeaux

    Criticizing these often racist or xenophobic ideas does no good, of course. The criticism often comes from the same establishment sources that shunned those voters for having those ideas in the first place.

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