Twice Divorced

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  • This topic contains 32 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  bubka 7 years ago.
Viewing 33 posts - 1 through 33 (of 33 total)
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  • #605028

    bubka
    Participant

    Would you consider or recommend a shidduch with someone who has been twice divorced?

    #898491

    Wisey
    Participant

    Maybe you should investigate what went wrong and decide if it applies to you.

    #898492

    That’s two red flags.

    #898493

    Toi
    Participant

    horsey, thats two.

    #898494

    shmoel
    Member

    I would suggest that a twice divorced woman may have the same status as a twice widowed woman.

    #898495

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    How about if she is twice divorced but from the same guy. And he’s a kohen.

    #898496

    avrah
    Participant

    The Mishkanos Yaakov here http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37575&st=&pgnum=294 in 37 says that there is no issur yet one should refrain from such a thing

    #898497

    Ender
    Participant

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice …..

    #898498

    mommamia22
    Participant

    I know someone who is happily married, third time.

    First marriage was a poor match. Second was a rebound. Third, a charm.

    You never know…

    It merits investigation.

    #898499

    computer777
    Member

    I would suggest that a twice divorced woman may have the same status as a twice widowed woman.

    No comparison.

    #898500

    shmoel
    Member

    Certainly there is. See the maare makom cited by “avrah” above.

    #898502

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    My father’s third marriage is, by far, his most successful one — 25+ years.

    The Wolf

    #898503

    shmoel
    Member

    The issue applies to a twice divorced woman. (See above.) Not a man who divorced two women. In fact, a man cannot be “divorced” under Jewish law.

    #898504

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    This reminds me of my other friend.

    So this friend got tired of dating, so he decided that instead of dating each girl and imaging what it would be like to be married, and then deciding based on his imagination–he would just marry them.

    So each time he was set up with a girl, he just up and married them. And then if it was no good, he got divorced. All in all, he married 16 times and then the judge ordered him to never marry again until he was caught up with his alimony payments.

    So then, he just made a new condition, that he would only agree to date and immediately marry someone if they would assume responsibility for his past alimonies. So he married 6 more times like that.

    Then, one of his former wives was redt to him again, but it was assur because it was machzir gerushaso misheniseis.

    Then, one of our other friends (the dumb one from the other story http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/my-dumb-friend) got mad at him because he is a kohen and he felt like this guy was wasting all these women and now he can’t marry them. It was especially a problem because this is the dumb friend who wants to marry a smart girl and he thinks that any girl who this guy would marry must be smart because this guy was so smart to think of this.

    So the dumb friend decided to stop him. So what he did was, he got another friend and together they testified falsely against him that he was a ????, and then he had to marry that person and could never divorce her.

    And now he is happily married.

    So the moral of the story is: “If you’re gonna be a chochom, it pays to have a dumb friend.”

    #898505

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    The issue applies to a twice divorced woman. (See above.) Not a man who divorced two women. In fact, a man cannot be “divorced” under Jewish law.

    I never implied that it did. However, the OP was gender neutral — and was not asking vis-a-vis issur vs. hetter.

    Besides, it’s her third marriage too. 🙂

    The Wolf

    #898506

    mommamia22
    Participant

    Shmoel

    “a man cannot be ‘divorced’ under Jewish law”

    What does THAT mean?!?

    #898507

    oomis
    Participant

    It certainly would bear investigation. Even if it were to be that in both cases the HUSBANDS were both losers, one has to wonder about her judgment in marrying two poor choices for husbands. Personally, I tend to believe that both sides contribute to a divorce situation, and there is nothing glatt about it (unless the spouse is abusive).

    #898508

    shmoel
    Member

    mommomia: Very simply that a wife cannot divorce her husband, under Jewish law.

    #898509

    mommamia22
    Participant

    Even if the husband divorces his wife (as opposed to her divorcing him), wouldn’t he, after the fact, be considered/deemed by Halacha as ‘divorced’??

    #898510

    shmoel
    Member

    No. A woman’s status is called a “gerusha”, but a man has no equivelent status in halacha.

    #898511

    CRuzer
    Member

    @mommamia22, I’ve never heard of a “garush” before. The halachos of a divorcee (gerusha) would only apply to a woman. There wouldn’t be any halachic difference between a bachur and a divorced man, to my knowledge.

    #898512

    mommamia22
    Participant

    I guess I don’t understand the Halachik implications (if he is never considered divorced, how that matters).

    What is the status of a twice widowed woman?

    #898513

    Sam2
    Participant

    CRuzer: A Alman/Garush that marries another Almanah/Grushah only gets 3 days of Sheva Brachos, not 7.

    Mommamia: A twice-widowed woman is not supposed to get remarried (except in certain circumstances; this is one of those issues, like Mamzeirus and Igun, where the Poskim use every possibility to be Mattir them).

    #898514

    shlishi
    Member

    The Mishkanos Yaakov cited above indicates a twice-divorced woman, like a twice-widowed one, shouldn’t remarry.

    #898515

    Sam2
    Participant

    Shlishi: Tzarich Iyun Bidvarav because his case should only be Shayach to a woman who was divorced 3 times.

    #898516

    shlishi
    Member

    Sam: Why would you think so? If she became an almana twice it applies and he says if she became a gerusha twice it applies. Why would you differentiate?

    #898517

    Sam2
    Participant

    Shlishi: There’s a Machlokes Tannaim B’kol Hatorah Kulah about whether it takes something happening twice to create a Chazakah or whether it takes 3 times. The Gemara in Yevamos talks about why and in which cases we split the P’sak. So the reason we say it’s a Chazakah after 2 in the case of a Katlanis (and by Meisu Echav Machmas Milah) is because there’s a Pikuach Nefesh involved so it’s S’feiko L’hachmir and we treat 2 as a Chazakah. But even if you will say like this Rashi that a concept of “Muchzekes L’geirushin” exists, there’s no reason not to Pasken that it takes 3 times to create a Chazakah because that’s the way we Pasken in almost every other case.

    #898518

    Geordie613
    Participant

    mommamia22,

    Just to clarify: In halacha, a man can only divorce his wife, a woman cannot divorce her husband, i.e. he can divorce but NOT BE DIVORCED.

    in other words, he cannot be divorced, where divorce is a verb. Of course he can be a divorcee, (after he has divorced his wife).

    is that clear?

    #898519

    soliek
    Member

    Here’s a novel idea, instead of judging a person based on a list of perceived flaws–flaws that may have been out of their control–save everyone the long phone bills and onesh for lashon harah that may or may not be l’toeles and just meet the girl and see if you like her. if you liked the first date, have another one, and then another, and then another, as many as you need to get to know her. if you get to know her and you dont see a problem and if you think you two can work as a couple then get married. im not seeing what the whole to-do is about.

    #898520

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    This conversation about terminology of “being divorced” is so obnoxious and inane, it reminds me of my obnoxious and inane friend.

    My obnoxious and inane friend had this idea that if she always made sure to correct everyone whenever they were technically wrong about something, then everybody would think she was smart and knowledgeable and then some dumb person who wanted a smart wife would marry her. Well, turns out that it worked, but do you really think she wants to be married to my dumb friend? http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/my-dumb-friend

    #898521

    bubka
    Participant

    soliek: Your advice to ignore halacha and what the Seforim Hakedoshim say about this matter does not sit well with Jews.

    #898522

    soliek
    Member

    Enjoy your shidduch crisis 🙂

    #898523

    bubka
    Participant

    Assuming the correctness of the age gap theory, the shidduch crisis is a result of an oversupply of shidduch-bound girls. Considering some will inevitably be left over, by marrying the non-divorcees you are simply shuffling the chairs (and getting fresher fruits.)

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