December 21, 2011 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #601233
Another 2-headed baby was born, this time in Brazil. Scientifically it’s 2 babies. What does halacha or the midrash say about 2-headed people?December 21, 2011 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #837669
8 more and they have a minyan?
Cerealously, these are tough cases.
I only have heard about such a concern when C Everette Coop sought out R’ Moshe Feinstein’s, ZATAZL, opinion about conjoined twins and how to determine if they should be separated and who would survive and who would be seen as a rodeph. Very tough, I am guessing, case by case situations.
It will be interesting to hopefully read what people have to say about this from a halachic/midrashic perspective.
Hatzlacha to the newborns!December 21, 2011 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #837670✡onegoal™Participant
Are you sure it wasn’t just a really bad mosquito bite?December 21, 2011 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm #837671aimhabonimParticipant
UH-BTGuy- I think you’re providing some unintended humor here.Did you” SERIOUSLY” mean to write “Cerealously” ? My dictionary is sighing in the background…December 21, 2011 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #837672BaalHaboozeParticipant
there’s gemorah that asks which head does a 2 headed person wear tefillin on, to which it answers it won’t live till 13 yrs old anyways.December 21, 2011 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #837673
Hi aimhabonim….. Actually, it was intended, but whether it made it to humor, as you suggest, is debatable at this point. lol
BaalHabooze. Can I assume you saw four heads?December 21, 2011 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #837674moi aussiMember
Is this called a “briah meshuna”? (strange creation)December 21, 2011 9:34 pm at 9:34 pm #837675nfgo3Member
To aimhabonim: Maybe BTGuy’s real name is Leo Gorcey.December 21, 2011 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #837676
Why, I oughta! lol
(I was going for Norm Crosby – yes, I know who that is. Actually, Leo Gorcey is more like it. Good one. : )December 21, 2011 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #837677zahavasdadParticipant
Its called Siamese twins the old way and Conjoined twins the new wayDecember 21, 2011 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm #837678ItcheSrulikMember
BaalHabooze: Isn’t there a gemara in zevachim about that? One of Rabbeinu Hakadosh’s talmidim asked him the question, Rebbi threw him out saying it can’t happen and immediately afterwards a man came in with a two headed baby? Tosfos there quote a different gemara (no clue where, I don’t even remember where what daf the one in zevachim is on) which has an aggada about Shlomo HaMelech. An adult with two heads demanded two shares of his father’s yerusha. Shlomo threw hot water at one head and the other screamed, proving that he was one person and gets one chelek.December 21, 2011 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #837679
Gemara in menachos 37a-b discusses how much you need to give for pidyon haben if they are a bechor. (it is also the gemara with which head you wear tefillin on.)
And tosfos there quotes the medrash with shlomo about the guy that ashmedai brought with two heads who had kids with two heads and they wanted double yerusha. I don’t know where it is.December 21, 2011 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #837680oomisParticipant
Interesting thing, the original famous “Siamese Twins” were actually Chinese brothers, Chang and Eng.December 21, 2011 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #837681toomuch00Member
No actually I think Siamese twins are joined by the head and conjoined twins are attached by their bodies. Not exactly sure thoughDecember 21, 2011 10:42 pm at 10:42 pm #837682NechomahParticipant
I believe that “Siamese” twins are joined at any part of their body, not just the head. The medical term is conjoined.
Not that it is relevant, but my mother was told when she was pregnant with me that I would have 2 heads. This was in the days before ultrasound and she suffered from fibroids. She actually had bleeding serious enough in her 6th month to require hospitalization. Anyway, suffice it to say that I was not born with two heads, I’m not a boy so I don’t wear tefillin, and I’m not a first born and did not get a double portion of the yerusha (not did my oldest sister). Just an interesting point. I didn’t realize that it was so serious as to involve discussion in the gemara though. I’m going to ask my husband.December 21, 2011 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #837683akupermaParticipant
I believe the halacha is one has to keep them alive as long as possible even though the chance for long term survival is probably non-existent (though if one head isn’t really alive, they might be able to save the baby).December 21, 2011 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #837684A Poshuta YidParticipant
If you want to know where the Medrash is, look in Yefeh Einayim on that Gemora.December 21, 2011 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #837685ItcheSrulikMember
Right you are, it’s Menachos. Time to start a major chazara, this is like the 15th reference I mis-cited this week.December 21, 2011 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #837686dash™Participant
Interesting thing, the original famous “Siamese Twins” were actually Chinese brothers, Chang and Eng.
I’m not sure what you mean by original. The Bunker brothers were made famous because they went on tour with P. T. Barnum. And they actually were Siamese. If they were Chinese the term would be Chinese twins.December 22, 2011 12:20 am at 12:20 am #837687Sam2Participant
I thought the Gemara was in Bechoros. It says you give 10 Shekalim for a 2-headed baby.December 22, 2011 12:31 am at 12:31 am #837688
Google “Abigail and Brittany Hensel”
They are also one body with 2 heads, and they are doing pretty well, 21 years old.December 22, 2011 1:30 am at 1:30 am #837689Raphael KaufmanMember
NFGO3, you and BTGUY must be nearly as old as I am to remember Leo Gorcy!December 22, 2011 1:49 am at 1:49 am #837690HealthParticipant
popa_bar_abba -“They are also one body with 2 heads, and they are doing pretty well, 21 years old.”
Which head gets to eat the food or do they take turns? They can’t both eat at the same time because then the body would become extremely obese!December 22, 2011 2:17 pm at 2:17 pm #837691
Wait a minute! Is a two-headed creation considered the same as conjoined? I am guessing they are not.December 22, 2011 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #837692
BTguy: I think you would say it is a type of cojoined. They are cojoined in a way that it appears two heads are sticking out of one body. Take a look at the pictures online.December 22, 2011 4:02 pm at 4:02 pm #837693AinOhdMilvadoParticipant
It is really disgraceful that many have found this subject humorous, and something to joke about.
I saw this on the news this morning, and it is absolutely heartbreaking. Goyim or not, my heart goes out to these poor parents for the terrible experience they are going through.
A birth defect, especially one as horrific as this, should arouse our compassion, and not jokes.December 22, 2011 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #837694
You are correct and what you posted needed to be said and change tone of the thread.December 23, 2011 4:02 pm at 4:02 pm #837695
AinOhdMilvado, agreed 100%. This is a beis midrash thread, not a humor thread.
Poppa bar abba mentioned Abigail and Brittany Hensel. Legally they are 2 people. Each head is its own drivers license. I read that one of them is engaged. The question is, is the midrash authoritative for halacha that they are one person? If they are 2 people, kedushin couldn’t be tofeis because it would automatically be chal on achos ishto and would not work. If they are one person, kiddushin would be tofeis.December 23, 2011 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #837696
I concur with you that the story about a two-headed baby is not a humor thread.
Having said that, you stated that in the case of Abigail and Brittany, each head had her own drivers license.
In the case of a moving violation, how would an officer determine who gets the ticket?December 23, 2011 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #837697yentishParticipant
FYI, the Hensels each have their own set of major organs, and only share parts of their spine. From the outside, they look like one person with two heads (two arms, two legs), but inside they are clearly two people. This is unlike the baby born in Brazil which has two heads but ONE (or one set) of all other major organsDecember 23, 2011 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #837698
Probably whichever head was driving at the time. That said, since they each control one hand, they both have a cheilek in the maaseh of driving and should split the ticket.December 23, 2011 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #837699
Equally strange is how these ladies are the Hensels. I suppose their respective husbands are the Gretels.
The Hensels bring a whole new dimension to legal issues.
Since each head can control one or both arms, only a lie detector test can determine who should get a ticket. And what is to stop the sister from placing blame on the other?
Also, since there are two heads, can one be a designated driver?
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