March 24, 2022 11:24 am at 11:24 am #2072118
Its been two long years, wondering what changes have stayed since thenMarch 24, 2022 12:51 pm at 12:51 pm #2072146bp27Participant
Skepticism of government and “science” will be here to stay.March 24, 2022 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #2072154
BP, such scepticism predates Covid.March 24, 2022 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #2072257moishekapoiehParticipant
of course, when i say science, i mean science, not theories such as the theory of evolution. that’s still a theory.
but, anyone can tell me what’s with all the dinosaur bones they keep finding.
in this week’s parsha, dinosaurs are not mentioned as kosher or treif.
any thoughts?March 24, 2022 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #2072256moishekapoiehParticipant
u have a pblm with science. all it is , is give you FACTS.
don’t like facts? r u an ostrich?
they don’t like the truth and facts, so they hide their face in dirt.
be my guest.March 24, 2022 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #2072264AviraDeArahParticipant
I’m still cautious about touching my face after touching things like doorknobs and other heavily shared surfaces. I was never conscious of it before, because in my mind the worst I’d get is a cold or the flu.March 24, 2022 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #2072285
Avira, do Briskers not teach that hakol b’yedei shamayim except hot and cold?! And when you learn tuma & tahora, you never thought how this is applicable? Please teach your students a simple rule: do not touch mouth, nose, eyes without washing your hands. My Father O’H taught me that, so I thought all learnt Jewish parents do.
Generally, persistent infections are not good for the guf. For example, research shows that untreated dental infections lead to heart problems. Not just statistically speaking, the mechanism I think is already understood. Someone at Touro College is involved in this research.March 25, 2022 12:12 am at 12:12 am #2072288
Melech Dovid was given a choice of pandemic and war and sensibly chose the former. Seems that we did not learn the lessons somehow as after two years we are now confronted by a madman.
Note that we often mistakenly think of punishments, miracles, .. happening in a split moment “hetzi halaila”. Note that 10 makkos took many many months.March 25, 2022 12:15 am at 12:15 am #2072324
Being a better Eved Hashem. Covid was a warning shot from Shamayim.March 25, 2022 12:16 am at 12:16 am #2072325AviraDeArahParticipant
AAQ, it’s something most parents teach their kids, whether they’re Jewish or not. It’s common sense, but it’s not something I was particularly worried about, even though I’m on the overcautious/, nervous side regarding health issues b’chlal. I was a very fidgety kid and my parents picked their battles. I’m not saying it’s the right thing to do, but I don’t think I got colds very often; it could be that my immune system is used to it due to my never having been careful about such exposure.
There’s an established link between gingivitis and heart disease. One cannot contract gingivitis from doorknobs. I don’t believe that even a frequent cold poses any serious issue.March 25, 2022 10:34 am at 10:34 am #2072363anIsraeliYidParticipant
ujm – I actually agree with you on this one. Wow.
an Israeli YidMarch 25, 2022 12:36 pm at 12:36 pm #2072371
anIsraeliYid: If you spend too much time in this forum, eventually you (slowly but ever so surely) come around to my views. It is a deliberative and, for most, an indiscernible process. Few realize it until it is too late to revert. So, congratulations, on your being cognizant and self-aware of your change.
With great love and Ahavas Yisroel,
Ah Gutten Shabbos and Chag Kosher V’Sameach!
🙂March 25, 2022 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #2072397
What happened to the guy from BP who said everyone should inform?March 25, 2022 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #2072415akupermaParticipant
Looking back, a bad case of flu but only life threatening to a small percentage of the population BUT a bad case of governments making things worse. At least public attention throughout the world has turned away from fighting a virus. Instead the government is focusing its problem solving skills on Ukraine.
Any chance they will develop a vaccine that works against political leaders (of more general application than Torah and Mitsvos, which only work for a small percentage of the population).March 26, 2022 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #2072523ParticipantParticipant
“At least public attention throughout the world has turned away from fighting a virus. Instead the government is focusing its problem solving skills on Ukraine.”
To quote someone on the jokes thread, Putin cured Covid in one day.March 27, 2022 2:44 am at 2:44 am #2072575Yserbius123Participant
@moishekapoieh The Tiferes Yisroel (who wrote Yochin U’Boaz on Mishnayos) has a sefer at the end of Mishnayos Sanhedrin called “Or HaChaim” that answers some of your questions.March 27, 2022 5:43 pm at 5:43 pm #2072792
>>>such scepticism predates Covid.
Before Covid I was skeptical of government and “science” but felt that due to the lack of alternative and better information source you may as well go along with most of what they say
Today what they say means as much to me as a advertisement saying “Drink Pepsi”March 27, 2022 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #2072817
>>>u have a pblm with science. all it is , is give you FACTS.
don’t like facts? r u an ostrich?
they don’t like the truth and facts, so they hide their face in dirt.
be my guest
Whoa! Defensive much here even though no one attacked you.
I won’t change your mind but (1)science does not give facts. They give their interpretation of phenomena and sometimes claim they are facts. Sometimes they are sometime they aren’t (2)Someone so scientifically educated should know that ostriches don’t hide their face in dirt. It’s an ancient scientific belief that we have far advanced from. They use their beaks to check on their eggs buried in the ground and in times of danger lower their heads partially in the ground to protect it.
But whatever…March 27, 2022 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #2072820
smerel, I would like to understand the source of your looking down at all the official information. I am not saying that it is all defensible, but how do we judge? I am afraid, this comes from our historical awareness that we have a long and wise tradition and outlived a lot of non-Jewish societies. Still, the fact that Rambam was smart in his generation, does not automatically makes us smarter than people around us – especially given yeridas hadoros in Torah on one hand, and continuing improvements in science and technology on the other. So, especially when we deal with chochma, rather than Torah, I would maybe trust someone who knows both Torah and science and history, but just because you got yeshiva education and know how to browse internet does not necessarily mean that you understand facts better. I guess my question is what are your proofs that you are smarter than them?March 27, 2022 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #2072835🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
“just because you got yeshiva education and know how to browse internet does not necessarily mean that you understand facts better.”
But those who study science and got a few hours of yeshiva education no doubt are proficient in both. Yup, we hear yaMarch 27, 2022 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #2072837
>>>smerel, I would like to understand the source of your looking down at all the official information.
>>> just because you got yeshiva education and know how to browse internet does not necessarily mean that you understand facts better.
I certainly don’t think I know more or better than a guy like Fauci does. However unlike two years ago I no longer put lying and misleading the public past him (he admit lying and misleading the public for “the greater good” at least twice during Corona)
And Fauci for all his faults is from the good guys compared to some of the more power hungry hypocritical politicians who claimed to speak in the name of science and for health
Therefore if they suggest something that does not seem cost effective to me I see no reason to listen to them.March 27, 2022 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #2072844Sam KleinParticipant
I would have thought by now being more than 2 years later since the coronavirus pandemic Mageifa started that klal yisroel would have already woken up to Hashems wake up call for serious Teshuva and Achdus ASAP together as one nation like we all did in the story of Purim.
Do YOU even remember what Hashems wake up call of the coronavirus pandemic Mageifa is? That came down on day 1 as soon as the terrible Mageifa started straight from Hashem in Heaven?
The Shocking wake up Message of the Coronavirus Mageifa Pandemic that has still not ended yet R”L:
Every tragedy has a wake up call message directly from Hashem that your not going to find in any sefer in the world or read in any newspaper from a Gadol Hador or speaker saying about the tragedy. What is the shocking message of the Coronavirus Epidemic-that shut down the entire world starting January 2020-that has already killed millions of innocent lives of all ages? what does Coronavirus mean? Kara-Na-Aveiros,, call out to your aveiros-my loving children klal yisroel-to wake up & do teshuva. But the message from Hashem doesn’t end there, whats the other name for Coronavirus that everyone calls it? i forgot, Covid, what does that mean? what does Covid/Honor do to a person? what does it say in Pirkei Avos? it removes a person from the world, & thats exactly what Covid is doing right now, its removing millions of people from the world as we are still in the midst of this terrible mageifa effecting the ENTIRE world. Let us all ask ourselves who made it be called these crazy names? where does it come from? the dictionary? is this just coincidence or is it a straight sign & direct message from Hashem that its time for all of klal yisroel to wake up & do teshuva? you think about this.
MAY we all wake up together for serious Teshuva and Achdus ASAP so Hashem can send this terrible Mageifa and send Mashiach to come already.March 27, 2022 10:34 pm at 10:34 pm #2072847
Syag > those who study science and got a few hours of yeshiva education no doubt are proficient in both
Syag, I am not claiming particular expertise in either science or Torah, I am just asking questions.March 27, 2022 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #2072846
smerel, I am not asking for a smerel v Fauci fight. I am sure both would make good points and it would be a geshmak to watch.
I am talking about a whole universe of science as presented by hundreds of papers written by probably thousands of people. You seem to dismiss them all, without presenting a specific argument. It means that you feel you have some basis to do that. I can only think that this is based on internal feeling that we, Yidden, know and understand something important that others don’t. I just hope we are not mis-using our heritage in vain.
As to politicians, I suggest look back at Madison’s writings that the goal of American system is not to ensure that everyone is truthful, but to make sure that opposing opinions get played out in public sphere. This seems to worked out well beyond his expectations :). Hope we don’t get confused by that and make our opinions based on acceptance or rejection of views by some politicians. We can do better than that.March 28, 2022 6:41 am at 6:41 am #2073027
@Sam Klein, I am very impressed, there has not been a novi in over 2000 years and we have someone who speaks to hashem and get direct messages.March 28, 2022 8:52 am at 8:52 am #2073052
>>>I am talking about a whole universe of science as presented by hundreds of papers written by probably thousands of people. You seem to dismiss them all
I don’t dismiss them all but I also don’t think that a scientific peer reviewed paper about something that can’t be proven true with a clear cause and effect, where there are many unknown factors and only certain types of evidence are admissible in reaching that conclusion represents truth.
>>>You seem to dismiss them all, without presenting a specific argument.
Scientists frequently do that about things like (but not limited to) overwhelming anecdotal evidence against them.
>>>I can only think that this is based on internal feeling that we, Yidden, know and understand something important that others don’t.
I work in a non-Jewish professional office and interact with non-Jews most of the day . I’ve never met a non-Jew who had the incredible degree of Emunas Chachim in scientists and Emunah Pesutah
in various scientific claims like I see on the ostensibly frum science oriented blogs and forumsMarch 28, 2022 1:29 pm at 1:29 pm #2073131GadolhadorahParticipant
Common Saychel: Sam’s nevius is unique since he often gets breaking news from the Ebeshter before it is even posted on Shamayim’s social media sites. For all you aspiring neviim, you may ask what is the source of this unique prophetic vision? Well, its really not that complicated. You simply take the most recent YWN news story of the petirah of some elderly gadol or chashuve rav, some highway accident, natural disaster, terrorist attack or geopolitical misfortune and quickly select the most appropriate thread in the CR, summarize the news event and then intone
” wake up & do teshuva”!!March 28, 2022 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #2073444
smerel > scientific peer reviewed paper about something that can’t be proven true with a clear cause and effect
thanks, this seems to pointing out to the issue at hand. A lot of emerging information is indeed coming first from data science rather than bio experiments, and science seem to have a better handle on experiments than on handling data. And given how often statistics is indeed misused politically, the low level of trust I think is justified. Maybe, the standards will evolve. It is a criminal offense to forge financial statements, an academic offense to fake a biological experiment, even a cyber attack will soon be considered a war act, but mis-using statistics is still a “gray area” indeed.
We do need to catch up, as many decisions are now inevitably done based on such data, especially when time is of essence, like vaccine roll out. I was struck reading an article by a retired vaccine developer who says at the end “if I were a President, I would make sure high schools be well trained in one subject”. I expected him to say biology or public health, but he said “statistics”.March 29, 2022 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #2073660
what happened to the Rabbi in Far Rockaway who shul was opened during Covid? certain people threaten to close him down
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