- This topic has 29 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 2 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Don’t worry – I. Have. Asked. My. LOR. (Who says I can)
But I would like to know more about this issue. Apparently it’s fine for me to type on CHM. However for the past 3 years, I did not do it since I felt it would help me ruchnius wise. This year it is davar ha’aveid for me to not type and I am typing but I feel very uncomfortable.
1. Am I being too strict on myself? Isn’t there such a thing as if you do something 3 times, it’s a shvuah?
2. If I told the secular ppl I work with that I try to not type on CHM, then got a psak from my Rav that I can, should I do it or not, should I bother to explain it or just let them assume I’m less strict than I used to be?
3. Is it ok to type something if I know my secular coworker will probably print it out for themselves?
Sources would be much appreciated. Thanks!
If you already asked your Rav then why do you feel the need to get confirmation from others? Once you ask a Rav a sheilah that should be all the confirmation one needs. Why bother asking a Rav anything if you don’t trust him to give you the appropriate answer or if you don’t feel satisfied with his answer?
Obviously it has come to a point where we trust Rabbonim less and less and look to others for moral and halachic support more and more.
what’s the heter to type on a computer forum? (no need for the wisecracks, what am i doing here. i am asking.) i understand your heter was for work purposes, not entertainment.
you said it is “davar ha’aveid”, so it sounds like you told your rov you may entail a loss, hence the heter. without the davar ha’aveid you can’t rely on a heter given for a davar ha’aveid. ywn isn’t a davar ha’aveid.
If I understood the “writing” issue clearly, its becuase in the old days, writing was a skill / craft (like tanning, ironwork, ect) and not something that was done by everyone and all the time. So like many other melochos that are not needed for immediate use, writing was put on the no list.
That said, I make every effort not to write with a pen on chol hamoed.
I don’t think computers even enter the equation. (unless you’re balancing your checkbook, just to get a head start on the end of the month).
Besides, CR chatting is not work, its a trip!
“Isn’t there such a thing as if you do something 3 times, it’s a shvuah?”
That’s only a dvar mitzva, or something that there is a halachic reason to do. However, since your Rav has said that there is no inyun not to type, you not typing was not a dvar mitzvah, and therefore I would assume there was no shvuah. However, as aries2756 said, if you truly have a problem you should consult your Rav.
“If I told the secular ppl I work with that I try to not type on CHM, then got a psak from my Rav that I can, should I do it or not, should I bother to explain it or just let them assume I’m less strict than I used to be?”
I would imagine that if you don’t tell them anything they’ll assume you simply don’t keep that halacha anymore. Therefore, I would assume you should explain the situation to them (although I’m not sure how exactly how you would do that) to avoid a chillul Hashem. However, as always, all halacha li’maseh shailos should go to your LOR.
“Is it ok to type something if I know my secular coworker will probably print it out for themselves?”
Hmmm… that sounds suspiciously like a halacha li’maseh shailah, one of those things that should be asked to your LOR.
paschabchochma: You’re very welcome.
“I’m thinking about how to avoid making a chilul Hashem in this way.”
Yeah, I’m trying to figure out how to explain it to them… maybe just say that one is not allowed to write during this time, and until now you weren’t sure if typing is writing so you finally got around to asking you Rabbi who said it’s OK.
its forbidden to type on chol hamoed
im kidding. (if you can’t figure out why, then too bad)
“If I told the secular ppl I work with that I try to not type on CHM, then got a psak from my Rav that I can, should I do it or not, should I bother to explain it or just let them assume I’m less strict than I used to be?”
I assume you can just explain to them that you misunderstood the halacha.
“Is it ok to type something if I know my secular coworker will probably print it out for themselves?”
As far as I understand it, there is no issue at all of typing. It is specifically writing that we don’t do. I don’t think that printing would even fall under the category of writing and if anything it would be no worse (probably better) than writing with a shinuy
Another thought:
There’s no kiyum to typing on a computer screen. It isn’t “really” there. On the disk it’s just a pattern of magnetism, and on the monitor it’s just a pattern of chemical dots which have been momentarily activated by an electron beam.
BUT printing out is another matter. Then it has a kiyum, like anything written or typed on a machine. I don’t print anything out unless it’s a davar ha-eved or a need for the chag (e.g. grocery list).
Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
There’s no kiyum to typing on a computer screen. It isn’t “really” there. On the disk it’s just a pattern of magnetism, and on the monitor it’s just a pattern of chemical dots which have been momentarily activated by an electron beam.
For the same reason, there is no problem of ????? if you write ???? online, because it is nothing and does not count as writing. So if you write the ?? ???, you would be allowed to delete it.
[Somebody once told me that even if you argue and hold that it is called ?????, one would be permitted to delete it, because everything deleted leaves a trace than can be undeleted with the right software.
I said that if there would be a problem, the problem would be minimizing it, not deleting it [because every time it comes onto the screen it is recreated; i don’t think it is ‘stored invisibly’ on the taskbar. But I am not sure]
BUT printing out is another matter. Then it has a kiyum, like anything written or typed on a machine. I don’t print anything out unless it’s a davar ha-eved or a need for the chag (e.g. grocery list).
Then it has a kiyum, like anything written or typed on a machine – Er – didn’t you just say that something typed on a machine has no kiyum?
And I am not sure if that will be a problem – printing is only a ???? – you push a button and it sends an image to the printer and sets the ink running… is it not like asking a goy to write for you ? You aren’t writing it yourself!
yekke- my rebbe (who is a first class posek and fluent in shas) told me that printing is indeed a problem.
Yekke: R’ Elyashiv says that a computer screen is real K’siva and that changing the screen is an Issur of M’chikas Hashem (he held that Bar Ilan was a tremendous problem).
Computer screens constantly refresh themselves, many times every second. When you erase something, you are not truly erasing it, merely preventing it from being rewritten. I spoke to Rav Feinhandler who wrote a Sefer called Ginzei HaKodesh on the topic, and he confirmed that Rav Elyashiv was not aware of this Metzius.
INteresting shevet haleivi –
hello99-
If i remember correctly Rav Y. Feinhandler in Ginzei hakodesh presents the metzious that it is constantly refreshing itself.
hello99- I think I saw in Ashrei ha’ish ????? ??”? ??? on shabbos nogea kosev, that rav Elyashiv said even though the ksav itself has no kiyum and is being refreshed etc. it is still kosev mdoiraysa since it is nechshav derech ksiva.
In Yabia Omer 8 OC 48 says
?????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ????: ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ?????, ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ??? ???????, ??? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ????. ??? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ??, ??? ????, ??”?.
IN Nishmas Avraham he brings down from Rav Shlomo Zalman ??? ?? ????”? ???????? ??”?: ??? ?? ????????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ????, ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ?????? (??”? ????????? ???? ???) ???? ??? ????? ?????? ???????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ???.
Shmiras Shabbos Khilchosa brings down from rav shlomo zalman and rav moshe nogea a typewriter, that it is not a maaseh uman so it will be muttar only ltzoirach hamoed.
However, yesh lchalek by a computer Like the yabia omer
chacham: Rav Feinhandler was already aware of the metzius, but his point was that HaRav Elyashiv’s psak was not based on it. None of the other Teshuvos you quoted address it either. Even if typing to a monitor would be kesiva, erasing it is merely preventing a new kesiva and not mechika.
?iunihs a htiw ti od ew tsum ro epyt ot dewolla eno si oS
hello99–
I do not understadnd why the fact it constantly refreshes itself it should not be a mechika. Misvara, I would say the way we should dan everything is the way we see it. Ain hachi nami this is what really is occurring, however, the way we see it is a mechika.
Besides, in hilchos gerama if something is setup to do a specific action, it would not be considered a gerama. An example is the malacha of zoreh which the entire melacha is a gerama. So if I have a button that says on it “Backspace” it is meyuchad to erase so it should not be considered a gerama.
Is it relevant that the typing is for entertainment purposes?
If you’re all on here and typing replies ON CHOL HAMOED, then obviously you feel that it’s okay 🙂
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.