July 25, 2008 7:15 am at 7:15 am #587915
We all hear stories of how syblings call eachother to Bais Din after the desmise of parents, duking it out sometimes in the ugliest manner, for the yerusha.
People are often called in business matters, when one side doesnt fullfill an obligation or guarantee, but imagine the following;
You have a suspicion that you’ve been cheated. You make all sorts of investigations and research just to find out that you indeed have a case. After collecting all sorts of proof, including documents and letters, you approach your opponents and ask them to settle with you nicely. They refuse in the most stubborn manner, insisting that your proof(which has been accepted by your Daas Torah) is bogus.
You are prepared to go to Din Torah with full confidence that you will prevail. But here is the dilemma;
The people you have this issue with ARE YOUR PARENTS.
What do you do? Should it be pursued or will this be considered a stigma which you will never be able to get rid of?July 25, 2008 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #1099634gavra_at_workParticipant
Not a matter (I think) for a public forum to decide, ask your Rebbe/Moshgiach together with all of the particulars and the two of you can work on a course of action.
B’hazlacha.July 25, 2008 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #1099635JosephParticipant
Halachicly, a child has the right to bring his parents to a Din Torah.
In fact, I forget the Amorah (I believe) who’s father insulted him viciously in public (in Shul) and the son sat there quietly not responding, allowing his father to continue with his false insults in public. Later, he brought his father to a Din Torah. (I hope I recall the details correctly.)July 25, 2008 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #1099636JosephParticipant
One crucial detail I omitted from the maaise, was the reason the son refrained from responding at the timeof the incident was in order to maintain Kibud Av. But taking the father to Beis Din, is not in contradiction with Kibud Av.July 27, 2008 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #1099637jphoneMember
“They refuse in the most stubborn manner, insisting that your proof(which has been accepted by your Daas Torah) is bogus”
I dont get it. why was “daas torah” not told that the issue was with the parents? Wouldnt it be more prudent to ask daas torah if a)allowed or even of allowed b)advisable, to take a parent to din torah?July 28, 2008 12:57 am at 12:57 am #1099638just meParticipant
I know cases where a child takes a parent to bais din. It becomes a rift that cannot be healed. One person’s das torah isn’t always another. It’s so sad that we have fallen to this level.July 28, 2008 2:16 am at 2:16 am #1099639Pashuteh YidMember
If you would ask me, I would say to be mevater. Godol Hashalom. Maybe there is some mistake, and will cause years of agmas nefesh for naught. You may not want to speak to them for a while, but the pain that family disagreements cause is usually to great to bear. You will think about it 24/7, and take up all your kochos, and get into a depression. No amount of money is worth it, IMHO.
There is a story about Reb ARyeh Levin in Tzaddik Yesod Olam in which a father was fooled by one son into mistakenly signing documents that cut his second son out of the will. The second son used to work with the father and take care of him, while the perpetrator had never helped the father at all, yet arranged to inherit all.
When the second son asked the father why he signed this, he admitted it was a big mistake, “I don’t know why I did it, and I will be glad to sign a document saying I was not in my right mind at the time, so as to nullify the will.”
However, the son said I can never degrade my father to have him state that he didn’t know what he was doing or was not of sound mind, so he decided not to challenge the will, and let it go.
Obviously, I don’t know the situation here, but keep in mind that it is a huge mental burden to go to Beis Din any time, and much more so if it involves a relative.July 28, 2008 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #1099640
As far as i know, the story I wrote about, I am almost 95 per cent sure that THIS WAS NO MISTAKE, frm whats being talked about, the parents were fully aware that they were deceiving
one of their children in the hope that it would never leak!July 28, 2008 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #1099641feivelParticipant
no one here including the author knows what happened.July 29, 2008 1:42 am at 1:42 am #1099642jphoneMember
Again, why wasnt this last piece of the equation repeated to the “dass torah” who agreed that there was a valid claim to go to a din torah? Was the questioner afraid that the rav would have said “your right BUT, dont take your parents to a din torah”?July 29, 2008 4:38 am at 4:38 am #1099643
The Littigant DID tell the Rabonim that they were conteplating taking their parents. Apparantly they encouraged him to pursue it unless the parents refused to go which was the case.
I am aware of what happened as much as I possibly can be, it was a very very close friend.March 12, 2012 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #1099644147Participant
I know cases where a child takes a parent to bais din. It becomes a rift that cannot be healed. One person’s das torah isn’t always another. It’s so sad that we have fallen to this level. ….. Tragically these are the current rifts sitting in a Beis Din between 2 brothers [A.K.A. Satmar], and between an Uncle & Niece [A.K.A. Bobov]; …….. How truly sad & tragic that they cannot broker Sholom & Harmony, especially in these days of Bein Geuloh l’Geuloh, as we are transitioning from Purim to Pesach.
We should all be 1 large Happy family, with Ahavas Chinom, Heralding the arrival of the Moshiach come this Nisson.March 13, 2012 1:08 am at 1:08 am #1099645LogicianParticipant
147 – No interesting current threads, eh ?March 13, 2012 1:22 am at 1:22 am #1099646apushatayidParticipant
Doesn’t apply on Tuesdays from 3-7pm.September 10, 2015 1:46 am at 1:46 am #1099647👑RebYidd23Participant
In the situation described, I doubt it’s the din torah that would be the cause of the rift in their relationship.
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