Tzitzis Dragging on the Floor

Unless you are very wealthy and live in the time of bayis sheni.

TLIK: I don’t know the precise Lashon of that M”B, but a Gartel just means a belt.

I know there are Poskim who advise against. However Bimchilas K’vodam (and I do say this with as much trepidation as is possible but still say it), it cannot actually be Assur. It is M’vuar from the Gemara that it is untenable to say there is something wrong with it. I have brought this Ta’ana to Poskim and Roshei Yeshivah and every single one has said that claim here is not wrong. The only possible answer someone gave was that in the time of Chazal it wasn’t a Bizui for clothes to touch the ground but in 16th-19th century Europe it was (and the Dochak in that answer is obvious).

Sam2: I respectfully disagree about what you wrote above. A siddur is not a Tashmishei Kedusha. It isn’t even a Tashmishei shel Mitzvah. A Tallis is a Tashmishei shel Mitzvah. We make a bracha on Tallis, we don’t make a bracha on a siddur. Tefillin is a Tashmishei shel Kedusha (since it has Shem HaShem written by a Sofer on Klaf with Kedusha, etc…

One can not put Tefillin and Tallis together in the same bag; different levels of Kedusha.

However, theoretically one could put a Tallis and a Shofar and an Etrog and a Siddur in the same bag… (I wouldn’t put a Lulav inside the same bag, but theoretically no problem either.)

Sam2: You are correct that a siddur has Shem HaShem, but it doesn’t have the Kedusha of a Sefer Torah. Would anyone think of laining/getting aliyahs (with a Bracha) from a printed Chumash (it also has Shem HaShem)?

There is even discussion about our ‘leniency’ of using printed Tanachs, Chumashim, etc… for Kriat HaHaftorah when in fact we should really be using Klafs (like Megilla) [whenever financially feasible].

rt: Well, the Rama certainly entertained the possibility of Leining from a printed Chumash. That aside, though, I don’t see your point. Something can have Kedushah and not have the Kedushah level of a Sefer Torah. A siddur is a Davar Shel Kedushah because it has Shem Hashem.

dafyomi: It’s not a Davar Shebikdusha. But leaving that aside, I think you should repeat your statement to R’ Yochanan’s (maybe it was R’ Yonasan’s) face.

dafyomi: There are Halachic concepts here. D’varim Shel Kedushah are different than D’varim Shel Mitzvah. Kedushah is something that you have to have additional respect for. Mitzvah you don’t have to have respect for, you just aren’t allowed to outright disrespect them. Wearing clothes in a normal manner isn’t disrespect. If your Tzitzis hit the ground when you sit or walk or whatever, that’s fine. It’s not disrespect unless you’re walking through mud or something. You might not personally like the idea of Tzitzis touching the ground, but it’s M’vuar in the Gemara that it’s not disrespectful and that it’s Muttar.

The Gemara is a perfect Ra’aya. If the issue was that it’s always Assur, then the Gemara should have said so. The fact that it asks from Lo’eg LaRash means it’s only Assur in a cemetery.

I referenced that M”B earlier. He’s against the Gemara.

It’s a good proof. If it was Assur and he did it, the Gemara would have said so, like it does whenever any of the Amoraim do anything wrong. Instead, the Gemara comments on why he did it in a cemetery.

Look, just because you think it’s a Bizayon of the Mitzvah doesn’t make it so. They are wearing the Tallis to fulfill the Mitzvah and that’s what they’re doing. Would you rather they not do the Mitzvah? That they be so preoccupied on tucking their Tzitzis into something that they not concentrate on Davening? Wearing the Tzitzis and proudly showing it (unless you have a Minhag not to) is the greatest Kavod you can give to it. The only way it would be a Bizayon would be if the floor was muddy or something like that.

One of the rayos that is brought is from Ben Tzitzis Hakeses who was one of the three gvirim (together with Kalba Savua and Nakdimon ben Gurion) who had the means to support the entire city of Yerushalayim for a 21 year siege (see Gittin 56). The gemara says he was called this because his tzitzis dragged on cushions behind him as he walked. Some say (don’t remember offhand who) that if he bore that name as a shevach, then it must be that it was not a davar ossur to do.

I should’ve learned from the sagacious Sam. He gave up trying to explain how a raya from a gemara or a rishon works to someone with obviously very little experience.

Okay. I will try once more to go through this for you step by step.

R’ Yonasan let his Tzitzis drag on the floor in a cemetery. R’ Chiya asked him how he could let that happen, it’s Lo’eg LaRash. R’ Yonasan replied that the Meisim don’t know what’s going on so there’s no Lo’eg LaRash. Now, clearly both of them hold that there was no problem with the Tzitzis being on the floor in general, because if there was either R’ Chiya or the Gemara would have said so.

How is this not a Ra’aya B’rurah that it’s Muttar?

Because R’ Yonasan clearly thought there was nothing wrong with it. Otherwise he wouldn’t have defended himself. He would have admitted to being wrong.

And the Shulchan Aruch doesn’t use the word “Muttar” for breathing either. You don’t need a Heter to do something that isn’t Assur. Lack of an Issur means that there’s nothing wrong with doing it.

The straps of Tefillin have a Din of D’varim Shel Kedushah and not Mitzvah because you use the straps to make Shem HaShem.