November 27, 2008 2:19 am at 2:19 am #588757
I heard about a group of women that got together once a week as part of a tznius support group.
i think that we could all use encouragement and advice in this area.
what do you say?? lemme know
post questions, problems, advice, ideas…November 27, 2008 6:42 am at 6:42 am #626804
A lot of choshove ladies do this now, especially considering the great plague of pritzus that has invaded our kehilos.November 27, 2008 10:47 am at 10:47 am #626805
Speaking of Tznius…there are men and women in this coffee room, is it really appropriate for you to be starting all these threads asking personal questions? It’s starting to make me nervous on what your intentions truly are. Please stop it. thanksNovember 27, 2008 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #626806
BY maidel, you’re not going to get it here. Maybe a women’s only yahoogroup type thing if you’re looking for a virtual support group.November 27, 2008 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #626807
If I need your advice, I’ll be sure to ask for it.
Until then think about what Bais Yaakov maydel said.November 27, 2008 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #626808
Bais Yaakov: I had a question…
Does the hemline need 2 b 4″ below the knee when standing? Cuz I c a lot of ppl that if they sit down it goes above.November 27, 2008 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #626809
if anyone’s read any of my other posts, youll note that i make an effort not to start scathing machlokes conversations, and if i need to retort, i try to do it in the right way.
attn all posters on this topic: please do not turn this topiic into some sort of argument, however mild.
and tzippi: im not personally looking for support, BH, but i thought it would be interesting to see what others are thinking about tznius.
and i agree with Shindy, tznius generally is for women in terms if dress, so maybe men shouldnt really be peeping in here a second timeNovember 27, 2008 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #626810
Most Poskim or LORs (local orthodox rabbis) hold that BECAUSE when a girl sits, her skirt may go up, the skirt should ideally reach 4 inches below the knee.
this is also for a girl who is getting into or out of a car, as this can be very untznius.
being as most ppl dont stand the entire day, and theyre likely to sit a lot, this is why skirts should be 4 inches below the knee, even when standing.
you can check up the details in a little book called “Hee Tishallel A Practical Guide to Tznius” by Rabbi Forcheimer
hope this helpedNovember 28, 2008 2:00 am at 2:00 am #626811
Reb Will Hill-
I thought I expressed how I felt in a respectful manner. Your comment “when I need your advise, I’ll ask” is uncalled for. I did not post my age, but I am probably old enough to be your mother, judging from your lack of maturity, so show a little derech eretz. After all, derech eretz kadma latorah. Shabbat Shalom!November 28, 2008 2:19 am at 2:19 am #626812
Rebetzin Shindy –
Even though your initial comment was not the epitome of respectfulness, I did strain in my reply in keeping a modicum of decorum. I don’t know your age, but would never think an elter bubbe could lack such Kovod HaTorah as your comments suggest. Anyone can claim online whatever they wish, however untrue it may be, and I thus must take your words with a very large dose of salt.November 28, 2008 2:43 am at 2:43 am #626813
The four inch rule is useful but more important is sitting in the skirt, however you normally would, and seeing if your knee is covered. Some skirts, even with those 4 inches, still don’t do the job.November 28, 2008 3:05 am at 3:05 am #626814
tzippi, thanx 4 that. I know what u mean. When getting into or out of a car- or especially a minivan- even 4 inches is not enuf. And it really hurts me when i c some ppl sitting down and pulling their skirt to keep themselves properly covered. It is soo wrong. It should be covered w/out having to strain it. Because eventually you will find yourself in a position where u wont strain the skirt and it will leave u exposed. But getting into/out of a car/minivan is really (i think) the big test if a skirt is long enuf.November 28, 2008 3:09 am at 3:09 am #626815
adding to tzippi’s comment: the 4-inches-below-the-knee skirt might cover the knees when sitting normally, but if a girl crosses her legs, which most do very often, the skirt rides up and exposes the bottom knee (the one which is crossed over on by the other leg….hope that makes sense lol)
to WILL HILL and SHINDY,
none of you sound like Rebs/Rebetzins to me, based on both of your postings under this topic.
i asked once, but i dont mind asking again:
PLEASE DO NOT USE THIS TOPIC AS A BATTLEGROUND, however trivial or (pathetically) even funny you may think it to be, I would really appreciate it. i do not want to be the cause of machlokes.
Thank you.November 28, 2008 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #626817
Reb will hill- I was offended by what you wrote. both posts. I am very upset right now with the petirah of the yidden in India, innocent people were killed. We don’t know each other, and we can at least write in a respectful manner of what we feel, it’s a free country still. I think tznius is very important, I don’t disagree with you. But I do not think it is tznius for a man to write posts on topics that don’t concern him, especially nowadays with what is going on in the internet, I don’t want to write about it but this is what got me very nervous. I hope you understand I don’t mean to write anything nasty, but this is very important to me, that men and women should be tznius will each other. May there be no more trouble in klal yisroel and moshiach should come really soon. shabbat shalom!November 28, 2008 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #626818
Reb Will Hill, I would like to know how I am not showing kavod hatorah. What posts have shown that? I certainly didn’t mean any lack of kavod hatorah. most of my posts are in the recipe/cooking department.November 28, 2008 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #626819
Rebt. Shindy: I think perhaps you ought to reevaluate your definition of respect, as all your posts on this thread – except b’h your last one – have entirely lacked that attribute. Secondly, you are mistaken – it is every man and womans responsibility for every other member of Klal Yisroel’s spiritual well-being in all mitzvos – tznius included. If you disagree fine, but do so respectfully please next time. Good Shabbos and be well.November 29, 2008 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #626820
The only men who have any business on a tznius thread other than rabbonim who can post the proper halachos, are those who have experience in the textile business and who have constructive suggestions for how to promote sale of proper clothing in our communities.
I happen to qualify as the latter, and I would suggest that women make deals with some of the wholesalers in the NYC “shmatte” district for their samples and overstocks.
They are located in the area near J2 and Kosher Delight; from what I remember having assisted a wholesaler with liquidation once, the wholesalers who sell to the public are found on the side streets (37th or 38th and 39th between Broadway and 7th Ave and also whatever street Circa Midtown is on).
Many of the shmatte district wholesalers/importers are tayerer Yidden from Iran and E”Y who are very receptive to helping frum people, and in these hard times they are very happy to offload perfectly good tznius styles that look great but did not sell for whatever reason. The prices can be as low as $5 per top or skirt (maybe even lower if you are buying large quantities in these hard times), and a semi-gemach can be set up to sell this clothing at cost to women and girls who take it upon themselves to improve in this area. (Alternately, the leader of a tznius group can check things out and see if it is worth organizing a shopping trip there – I’m no longer in the US and can’t vouch for what is going on there now).
Hatzlocho!November 29, 2008 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #626821
its’ very nice to do it in a neighborhood where most women are from similar backgrounds so u are on the same level – sort of- and u can work on things together. YWN caters to too many diff types for such a forum to work.November 30, 2008 2:18 am at 2:18 am #626822
Bais Yaakov maydel,
Thanks a lot for starting this. We need all the zchusim we can get in these troubling times.
I wish I knew where to find a group in flatbush. The lack of tznius situation is getting very out of hand. People are blindly following the latest trashy styles. We need constant reminders about this.
And what tzippy says is very true. Very often 4 inches is woefully insufficient. Like Bais Yaakov maydel mentioned when crossing legs or getting into a vehicle it uncovers the knee.November 30, 2008 11:36 am at 11:36 am #626823
Will Hill- I really can’t understand your posts, you must have me mistaken with someone else. Please refer to Itzik_s last post to see what I am talking about. I still don’t think a man has any business being on a tznius thread. Do you really think your posts will help women be more tzanuah? I really think that the only way a person can change is to first develop a relationship with them and show you care about them and then very slowly and gently give recommendations. I know tnius is very important and unfortunately it’s horrible especially in the summer time, but if you show these people that you care about them that is the only way. We live in such terrible times and there is such hatred among yidden. We have to be careful when giving tochacha to do it in the right way and from only the purest of intentions, with kindness and respect.November 30, 2008 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm #626824
Qa, and sometimes 4 inches is more than enough, especially for a woman who doesn’t have long legs.November 30, 2008 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #626825
As someone who became more religious, I remember very clearly who turned me on to yiddishkiet and who was a total turn off. The ones who impressed me the most were those who were very kind, warm, and sincere. Those who came across all fire and brimstone were a real turn off. Keep this in mind when giving tochacha, very important.November 30, 2008 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #626826
“Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and a horrible tempest, this shall be the portion of their cup.”
TehilimNovember 30, 2008 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #626827
tzippi thats true for some people 4″ is enuf. i think the bigger problem is with ppl who dont even have 4, and it clearly is erva when she is in certain positions, like those mentioned here be4. i c so many ppl these days who dont even have 4 (some it covers the knew only when they stand erect like a status, anything else & its exposed.)November 30, 2008 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #626828
qa: i know of a group in brooklyn, but its mostly sephardi women that ares struggling with pants and short sleeves….but i figured “regular” frum women also need chizuk and encouragement from ppl just like them…anyway, i dont know your personal tznius status, but if you would like, tell me and i can get a number for women who want to join a group like this. or we kud just start our ownDecember 1, 2008 5:23 am at 5:23 am #626829
I get goosebumps seeing all the greatness amongst yidden seeking to improve their middos and halacha.December 1, 2008 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #626830
Whats the purpose of a tznius support group? (not being facetious, just curious how it would work)December 2, 2008 12:24 am at 12:24 am #626833
To support one another in the vital, and difficult, area of maintaining tznius.December 2, 2008 2:17 pm at 2:17 pm #626834
The Big One – I “understand” that but how does thatwork? Do you walk in like an AA meeting and say “its been three weeks since I wore something questionable?” or “I almost bought a skirt that was too short because it was beautiful and on sale but I resisted” – how does this work?December 2, 2008 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #626836
Will Hill- Ill try to say this in the most yashrus manner. Think about men going on this thread. They have to think of situations (assur!) to explain themselves like beis yaakov maidel did. Its completely assur to think about this. A halachik shaila to a posek, yes! b/c hes no discusing it hes answering a question. And your no posek and you dont know what goes on with their clothes so you cant help them. If so this thread completely does not pertain to you. Shindy is completely right! I think YWN should not accept any posts coming from a screen name which seems to be a man whether by SN or by his posts. (except this one lol). You know its not yashrus for you to be on this thread, but definatley looking foward to seenig you on other threads!:)December 3, 2008 1:14 am at 1:14 am #626837
SJS, There can be many approaches, but depending on who is involved what you suggest is one possible way.December 3, 2008 2:32 am at 2:32 am #626838
yashrus20- Will Hill will say it is mutar because it is leshaim shamayim and it is a mitzvah “considering the great plague of pritzus that has invaded our kehilos.”December 3, 2008 4:47 am at 4:47 am #626839
yashrus20, please disregard shindy’s lack of respect, as this is a very emotional issue for her. (Btw, although I disagree with you, how are YOU here – according to your taaina?)December 3, 2008 11:05 am at 11:05 am #626840
Reb Will Hill…..You make me laugh out loud. I doubt you are above the age of 21. Shut off the computer and crack open the sefer, say a kapital tehillim if you really want to make a difference in this world.December 4, 2008 2:09 am at 2:09 am #626841
shindy, I’m glad to have put a smile on your face. 🙂 You did the same with your widly inaccurate guess. Btw, I did say a kapital for you.December 4, 2008 2:34 am at 2:34 am #626842
do i havta officially BAN you guys (shindy/will hill).
seriously though i wouldnt want any thread of mine becoming a hotbed of machlokes here take it somewhere else.
for the record, i checked will hills age on that thread, 28 i think. im not sure how pld you are shindy, im assuming older.
WELL BOTH OF YOU START ACTING LIKE IT
i dont wanna cause offense to anyone here and maybe i shouldnt even be saying this stuff cuz im not even near any of your ages, but sadly, i feel i have to.
ThanksDecember 4, 2008 7:03 am at 7:03 am #626843
First off shes only emotional b/c it desturbes women when men want in on tznius conversations its our dealings. And as to why i wen t on this thread was b/c my sis saw this and asked me if a guy going on a tznius thread was normal. And if you disagree whats your argument? (b/c the plague aint gonna be solved by you). You know whats funny is im onlly 20 and beis yaakov meidel is right its nuts that we have to give you musser. But as they always say “as you become wise you also grow old, when you grow old not you may not become wise”.December 4, 2008 7:09 am at 7:09 am #626844
bais yaakov maydel
are there any hours of the day,you actually spend in your bais yaakov??? i get it your smart from your posts, but your everywhere in the coffee room!!!December 4, 2008 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #626845
To asdfghjkl: once a BY girl, always a BY girl.December 5, 2008 1:29 am at 1:29 am #626846
yashrus20, That might explain the first time you came, but how do you justify your second visit based upon your taaina?
Whats my argument you ask? Every man is responsible for his wives and daughters halachic observance and maintaining every facet of tznius. (I will not waste my breath even debating anyone who is in denial about this.) Therefore every man must know the halachos of tznius, and discuss them when appropriate. Additionally, every Rov is a man. And they are not shy about constant reminders – to both men and women at Tznius Asifus and other venues – about the vital importance of maintaining every aspect of the utmost tznius.December 5, 2008 3:52 am at 3:52 am #626847
tzippi: im presently a BY girl, even though my schools not an “official” bais yaakov… but anyway, thats what i hope to remain!
asdfghjkl: (that was fun, going across the keyboard…) i dont know if youve noticed, but pretty much the only times i post are at night NY time (but i remember you saying you were from ireland, what with the time difference and all, it probably in the middle of the day for you…)and when i decide to neglect my work…btw, if im as smart as you think i am, where would i have gotten it other than from BY? lol.December 5, 2008 3:59 am at 3:59 am #626848
wonder if there is a way to make a tznius support group for women only, so we could really be productive on this thread.December 5, 2008 4:21 am at 4:21 am #626849
youre right, were getting way sidetracked here….December 5, 2008 4:36 am at 4:36 am #626850
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