April 30, 2017 12:37 am at 12:37 am #1265590
Is using a transparent bubble umbrella tznius?April 30, 2017 12:41 am at 12:41 am #1265603
Not less than using no umbrella.April 30, 2017 6:32 am at 6:32 am #1265614
Step aside, Burka ladies. LB has created a new standard in tznius- hide your head/upper body under a large (non-transparent) umbrella. It’s not as hot, and is very convenient when it rains.April 30, 2017 6:36 am at 6:36 am #1265629
If it’s raining and most people and women use black umbrellas, and she is not using one then maybe someone will help her out or expect her to get a black or normal-looking umbrella so even if she is wet it won’t be as noticeable as those clear bubble ones.
If it’s raining and she uses a clear bubble umbrella that does stand out in the crowd, you’re saying that this is about the same as if she was getting wet?
Well I guess getting soaked by rain may also affect her hair covering. Whether it is a sheitel or tichel or snood or something else, it seems like it would be uncomfortable and heavy if it got soaked while on one’s head. Especially if that person then had to rain through the rain.
Hmm…. thank you 🙂April 30, 2017 9:47 am at 9:47 am #1265722
Life, and Torah, are hard enough without complicating it with stupid questions. How could something that does not materially alter a person’s appearance alter his/her observance of/compliance with the mitzvah of tznius.April 30, 2017 9:47 am at 9:47 am #1265686
Lol. I forgot that people use umbrellas to shield the sun too.
It’s a lot of work to carry though. Those umbrella hats look cool but it looks like they only cover one’s head. Plus it might smack someone in a crowd, whereas at least you can maneuver umbrellas out of the way.April 30, 2017 10:20 am at 10:20 am #1265788
A friend of mine was on a date. The boy saw someone he knew and he was embarrassed for the guy to see him, so he held his umbrella over his face.
My friend was like, “Thanks a lot!” (sarcasm).
He goes, “Oh don’t worry. It had nothing to do with you. If I thought you were ugly, I would have held the umbrella in front of you.”.April 30, 2017 10:20 am at 10:20 am #1265779
Once in Lakewood, I was walking in the rain without an umbrella. An avreich who was driving by threw an umbrella to me.
I thought that was really nice!April 30, 2017 11:57 am at 11:57 am #1265941
Tznius does not mean camouflage.April 30, 2017 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #1266206
another advantage of umbrellas, they can be used in crowds to avoid any untzius contact, such as when boarding a crowded non-mehadrin bus.April 30, 2017 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #1266338
Yay!!! 🙂April 30, 2017 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #1266342
So it’s totally fine for your rabbi’s wife to be running errands with her children in her new bright red Corvette Z06?April 30, 2017 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #1266353
Don’t bite the newbies, huju. And lightbrite, I know of some very good Jews with very red cars.April 30, 2017 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #1266358
Rewind. Good point. I went a bit extreme there.
The question came about after seeing a photo of men praying at I think a Rebbe of blessed memory’s gravesite and they all had black umbrellas.
Maybe women have a more creative freedom of dressing. Despite the stigma that says otherwise.
Thank youApril 30, 2017 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #1266373
although I was a bit mortified. But it was still very nice, and it did make me feel good that someone cared enough to do that.April 30, 2017 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #1266378
I knew a 19 year old girl who bought a very bright red car (not deliberately – it was the cheapest one she found), and her uncle told her she should paint it. I was very surprised when I first heard the story because it is so not her uncle’s type to even notice the color of someone’s car, let alone to tell them what to do.
But then the person telling me the story explained that it had been EXTREMELY BRIGHT RED. Added to the fact that she was a single 19 year old girl living in Lakewood. And even so, I am sure there are many who wouldn’t have had an issue with it.
But in most cases, I don’t think anyone would say it’s assur to drive a red car, although I’m sure there are those who would avoid it.
Likewise, there is nothing wrong with most umbrellas. I suppose theoretically there could be some kind of umbrella that REALLY stands out, and in that case, there MIGHT be some people who would feel that a 19 year old girl should avoid walking past a Yeshiva with such an umbrella. But I have never seen such an umbrella and I doubt it exists.
I have no idea what a transparent bubble umbrella is, but it sounds fine to me.April 30, 2017 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #1266379
Oh cool! 🙂April 30, 2017 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #1266380
Personally, I think I would drive a red car. And I certainly wouldn’t look down on you if you drove one.April 30, 2017 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #1266381
I might even ask you for a ride.April 30, 2017 9:57 pm at 9:57 pm #1266471
To RebYidd23: I was not biting – I was barking, but you make a good point.April 30, 2017 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #1266476
Lol how did I miss this one?! Truth 🐣April 30, 2017 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #1266478
🐶April 30, 2017 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #1266480
The bubble umbrellas are simply made of transparent plastic and shaped more like half an eggshell or bell, instead of a wider curve of a regular umbrella.
It kind of looks like your top half is in a bubble.
I once got one but returned it soon after. My bag got soaked and I couldn’t move much in it.
That said, people do look cute in them and they often have those hooked handles. All of the ones that I have seen fold long though, not in on themselves. So it’s a lot to carry.
Yepp yepp ☔April 30, 2017 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #1266482
Huju – I’m impressed!April 30, 2017 10:34 pm at 10:34 pm #1266477
Where’s Rebshidduch? 🚗April 30, 2017 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #1266504
now that you’ve described them, I understand better why you think there could be a tznius issue. At first I also thought it sounded like a crazy question, but now the question makes sense.
That being said, since I’ve never seen it, I have no real opinion on it. Just because the question makes sense, that doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with it. My guess would be that it’s fine, and that it’s not something you should be worrying about.
But you’re probably better off asking people who know what you’re talking about.May 1, 2017 1:43 am at 1:43 am #1266536
Tznius is more than appearance, what clothing is worn. It is demeanor, type of speech, etc. anything that would draw improper attention can be considered not-tzanua. It is not codified in Halacha, but comes from instinct- a tzanua person will not only dress tzanua but also act tzanua. LB is on to something, although I have treated her question mostly as a joke question.May 1, 2017 1:49 am at 1:49 am #1266539
LB, if you feel uncomfortable with such an umbrella, and think that they make people stick out, then without making a big issue of it, just don’t use it. Tnznius is nuanced, sometimes one person can be tzanua doing or wearing the same thing that will make another person not tzanua.
By the way, my umbrella is not black. It is just so much easier to identify it when I put it down. and less likely for someone to mistake it as his and take it by accident. Kind of like a something-other-than-black suitcase on the baggage claim carousel at the airport.May 1, 2017 1:23 pm at 1:23 pm #1266821
To LU: Please explain what you mean by “impressed.” Have you been involuntarily and physically forced to serve in Her Majesty’s Navy?May 1, 2017 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #1266830
The clear bubble umbrellas might not be Tznius but they are definitely cooler!May 1, 2017 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #1267465
Huju – I have no idea what you mean. I just meant that I was impressed that you admitted that you were wrong.
What in the world did your comment mean?May 1, 2017 9:27 pm at 9:27 pm #1267482
Lol I second that question!
Umm… “To LU: Please explain what you mean by “impressed.” Have you been involuntarily and physically forced to serve in Her Majesty’s Navy?” (huju)
I don’t get it. Please explain. Thanks! 🙂May 2, 2017 2:25 am at 2:25 am #1267591
another meaning of the word: impressed to the army/navy, i.e. being drafted.May 2, 2017 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1268738
Oh! Chas v’shalom!
Huju – I meant I was impressed by you.
And RY – thanks so much for sticking up for my friend! 🙂May 2, 2017 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #1268748
Can somebody explain how transparent bubble umbrellas can possibly constitute a lack of tznius?May 2, 2017 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #1268788
Okay so you’re walking down the street and everyone is carrying black umbrellas. Then there is a woman with a bubble umbrella, who literally looks like she is in a clear bubble in a whole new universe.
I don’t know. It stands out. That’s all. I can surely be overthinking things here and just asked for the sake of caution.
Thank you 🙂May 2, 2017 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #1268805May 2, 2017 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #1268834
Excellence – It’s a joke.May 2, 2017 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #1268843
Hmmm… very well.May 2, 2017 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #1268906
Lilmod Ulelamaid, with all due respect, your answer doesn’t explain anything, and I just saw LB’s answer above that, it doesn’t explain its impropriety either.May 2, 2017 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #1268913
After reading some of these most recent posts (deleted and otherwise) I am concerned if there are people out there reading these types of questions/threads and getting a wrong impression about what frumkeit is asking of us.May 3, 2017 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #1269236
@YWModerator-29 I am concerned that many frum people have the wrong impression of what frumkeit is also. We get so caught up in the form of an umbrella or the color of nail polish that we miss out on what it really means to be tznius, among other things. We often fail to see the forest for its trees.May 3, 2017 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1269243
I find them more effective at stopping rain.May 3, 2017 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #1269287
FuturePOTUS – I think you missed my point, which was my point. Many of these threads are written in humor, sarcasm and/or facetiousness and when a poster/lurker reads it and thinks it is a serious discussion about hashkofo it gives the impression we are failing to see the forest when in fact we aren’t.May 3, 2017 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #1269493
Futurepotus – I was just explaining why LB seemed to think that they do and what her question seemed to be based on. I wasn’t saying that I agree.
I have never seen such an umbrella, so I don’t feel qualified to have an opinion. It is possible that the whole idea is ridiculous but I don’t feel comfortable saying so if I don’t know what we are talking about. But I certainly don’t want to give over the impression that I think there may be something wrong with it either.May 3, 2017 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #1269494
Mod 29 – I have seen what you are talking about happen with other threads, but I did think in this case that the OP was serious. Remember, she is in the process of figuring things out, so it was not a ridiculous question for her. Although perhaps it is a problem that others took the question seriously (not the questioner – the questioner should be taken seriously of course).May 3, 2017 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #1269530
Lilmod Ulelamaid: But don’t you think it says something that someone who is in the process of figuring things out sees this, not the concept itself?
The very fact that we are having this conversation on this thread is very disconcerting.May 3, 2017 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #1269557
FuturePotus – no, I don’t. We’ve had this conversation before, on another thread. Posters were coming down very harshly on the OP for asking if something was a problem – something that others felt was ridiculous. She pointed out that to a becoming-baalas teshuva, everything sounds ridiculous. We are used to halacha (and minhag), so there are many things that sound totally normal to us that might sound crazy to someone who is not Frum. We don’t realize this either because we are so used to these halachos or because we understand the reasons behind them – and I’m not sure which it is.
If I hadn’t grown up Frum, I might think that it’s crazy that elbows have to be covered, or that many women won’t answer the door or go out on the mirpesset without putting socks on first, or that most Frum women won’t wear red (although they will wear maroon or bright yellow), or that I’ve been asked to put my hair in a ponytail when teaching in boys’ schools, etc.
So why shouldn’t LB think that this may be a problem as well?May 4, 2017 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #1269987
Lilmod Ulelamaid: My intention here is not to come down on OP, not remotely, it sounds like she’s doing what she thinks is right, and I apologize to her if I was misunderstood because I wasn’t clear.
I’m coming down on the problem that when someone looks to understand, that’s what (s)he sees. This is a criticism of our society, not of her. The ridiculousness of someone trying to learn about tznius, and what she sees is little details of a chumra shel chumra, in some remote possiblity, a type of umbrella could be untznius, is insane. That’s not the spirit of tznius. And I don’t mean to sound neo-conservative at all, halacha matters more than the meaning of a mitzvah, according to a Gadol I asked yesterday, but there’s a certain point in chumras where it goes too far. And that fact that these things are blown out of proportion to the point that people lose focus about the meaning of what they’re doing. We talk the talk, walk the walk, and keep all the chumras, but do we know what the essence of what we’re doing is?May 4, 2017 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #1270017
FP, I wrote a great response to this but pressed the wrong button on my phone and it all disappeared. To summarize; I feel ya.
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