October 8, 2013 2:19 am at 2:19 am #610816tryinghardMember
I heard (not a reliable source) that R’ Nachman m’Breslov said that bringing a child under the age of 7 to his kever will prevent the child from sinning. Anybody got a source for this?October 8, 2013 2:30 am at 2:30 am #978604
Made-up borderline Avodah Zarah?October 8, 2013 4:49 am at 4:49 am #978605–Participant
You can’t prevent someone from sinning. That would negate the entire concept of free will.October 8, 2013 10:58 am at 10:58 am #978606ED IT ORParticipant
That reminds me of a joke!
this may be in poor taste – stop reading if you care.
so a breslover and lubavitcher are in a car crash and are niftar, they get sent to hell, the breslover calls reb nachman and says you promised to schlep me out if i went to uman, reb nahman grabs him by his peyos and pulls him out of hell.
meanwhile the lubavitcher calls his rebbe who says i would pull you out but i think its better if you stay and do shlichus.October 8, 2013 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #978607
The reason God put us on Earth is to daven by R’ Nachman’s kever in Uman.October 8, 2013 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #978608
Rebbe Nachman said in ‘Chaye Moharan'(517) :
“He said: I trust in Hashem Yitborach, that every child who comes to me before the age of 7 years, for sure, will be clean from the sin until the day of his marriage”
See the following from “Cochvei Ohr” where it says that Rebbe Nachman is talking about the sin of ‘spilling the seed’ and even after his passing. Refering to any child who goes to Rebbeinu’s kever, gives a perutah to tzaddakh and says Tikkun HaKlali.
Here are the sources in hebrew:
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Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman!!! 🙂October 8, 2013 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #978609tryinghardMember
Thank you eligalit for your help. Greatly appreciated. Thank you crazybrit for the chuckle! We can all use it.October 8, 2013 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #978610WIYMember
Nanach has nothing to do with true Breslov. The nanach cult are a bunch of drug addicts who do aveiros and pass it off as breslov chassidus. Rabbi Nachman is not proud of them.October 8, 2013 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #978611
WIY +1October 8, 2013 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #978612
Assuming the Makor is correct, why does R’ Nachman’s saying about someone visiting him extent to visiting his Kever?October 9, 2013 2:03 am at 2:03 am #978613
WIY, while I have a strong interest in Breslov chassidus, I’ve never wanted anything to do with NaNach (which is in any case a very small proportion of today’s Breslovers). That said, the idea that they’re all drug addicts passing off aveiros as chassidus is preposterous and slanderous!October 9, 2013 7:37 am at 7:37 am #978614
WIY and LAB – This is not true! I am a Nanach and I don’t do drugs and try my best not to do aveiros. Why spread lies and hate?
The Nanach’s (or rather, the Petek that contains the Holy name Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman) is the real force behind the spiritual awakening happening in Israel.
Why be bitter? Be happy 🙂October 9, 2013 7:50 am at 7:50 am #978615
Sam2 – here is the answer to your question:
I want to remain among you. And you should come to my grave.(Chayey Moharan #197)
There is nothing I need to do for myself in this world at all. I came into the world only to bring Jewish souls closer to God. But I can only help someone who comes to me and tells me what he needs. (Chayey Moharan #307)
Rabbi Nachman chose as his resting place the old Jewish cemetery of Uman , Ukraine , where the martyrs of the 1768 Uman Massacre were buried.
Prior to his death, Rabbi Nachman urged his followers to come to his grave to pray. He also made a promise that no other Tzaddik in the whole of Jewish history had ever made. Taking as his witnesses Rabbi Aaron, Rav of the town of Breslov , and Reb Naftali, his second closest disciple after Reb Nosson, Rabbi Nachman said:
“Bear witness to my words. When my days are over and I leave this world, I will still intercede for anyone who comes to my grave, says these Ten Psalms and gives a penny to charity. No matter how great his sins, I will do everything in my power, spanning the length and breadth of creation , to save him and cleanse him.”October 9, 2013 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm #978616
Believing that there are shortcuts to spirituality or “cleansing” from sins is ludicrous. Read the Rambam Hilchos Teshuvah for how to do that. (Maybe also skip Perek 3 Halacha 7 where he says that what you believe about going to R’ Nachman’s kever is probably grounds for losing one’s portion in Olam Haba.)October 9, 2013 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #978617
LAB – I love you 🙂
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May you merit to find the true Tzaddik!October 9, 2013 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #978618
LAB, here is a translation of the passage which you seem to think means Breslovers can’t go to heaven, c”v’s.
Five individuals are described as Minim:
a) one who says there is no God nor ruler of the world;
b) one who accepts the concept of a ruler, but maintains that there are two or more;
c) one who accepts that there is one Master [of the world], but maintains that He has a body or form;
d) one who maintains that He was not the sole First Being and Creator of all existence;
e) one who serves a star, constellation, or other entity so that it will serve as an intermediary between him and the eternal Lord.
Each of these five individuals is a Min.”
Breslovers don’t believe any of this. On the contrary, they simply believe in the power of a tzaddik after death to influence the world through the tzaddik’s prayers. That the departed pray for the living is mainstream hashkafa. The Gemara actually notes that tzaddikim are more powerful after their death than before. (Chullin 7b). It is also very mainstream to visit the graves of tzaddikim.October 9, 2013 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #978619WIYMember
Nanach is not Breslev or Judaism. The petek is baloney or some other cured meat. Somebody played a joke on a naive temimusdik person who fell for it and the rest is history. If you want tobe breslov there are plenty real breslov Tzaddikim to learn from and have a kesher with. Go visist Rav YM Shechter or Rav Shalom Arush.October 9, 2013 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #978620
yytz: I think he was referring to the line, “In order to be a Meilitz between him and HKBH”.
It might be mainstream Hashkafa, but that doesn’t change the fact that the Rambam seems to have thought it’s Apikorsus. The Rambam probably would have said the Zohar was Apikorsus if he saw it.October 9, 2013 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #978621
WIY, since you mentioned R’ Arush, I just wanted to point out he’s visiting the US soon (for the first time), visiting various cities sometime in November.October 9, 2013 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm #978622rationalfrummieMember
what’s the meaning behind the line “na nach nachman nachman me’uman?” It just spells out the simple phrase that Nachman was from Uman. Who cares where he’s from? Why wear it on a kippah? Satmars don’t put “Yoel me’satmar” on their kippahs lol. whats the deal here?October 9, 2013 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #978623MDGParticipant
“R’ Arush… visiting the US soon (for the first time)”
Is there an extradition treaty between he US and Israel?October 9, 2013 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #978624MDGParticipant
I have read some Breslov literature. From what I read, they don’t say that R’ Nachman is an intermediary to pray to, but they say they rely on his merit.
Sam2 said: “Made-up borderline Avodah Zarah? “
A”Z, I think not. But cultish? YES.
Look up “Applewhite Theorem”October 9, 2013 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #978625
I’d just like to point out: I’ve heard people try to “prove” Breslev’s general worldview, namely that happiness is a core part of Judaism, by quoting the famous phrase “Mitzvah gedolah lihyos besimcha”. This is a quote from R’ Nachman himself. All you’re proving is that this is Breslev’s view, not Judaism’s in general.
Ivdu es Hashem b’simcha is a pasuk in Tehillim (100), which also has the pasuk (2) Ivdu es Hashem b’yirah.October 9, 2013 10:22 pm at 10:22 pm #978626
MDG: Read the pamphlets they give out. There is some solid K’firah in them.October 9, 2013 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #978627
This thread should be shut down. Whenever there are threads consisting mainly of attacking Chabad, there are shut down. Then why should this CR tolerate all the insults hurled at Breslovers on this thread?October 10, 2013 12:11 am at 12:11 am #978628
yytz: Chabad might be a debate, but at least there are strong, strong opinions that they are okay.
No one supports Na Nach.October 10, 2013 12:15 am at 12:15 am #978629ChchamMember
rationalfrummie: I heard that the Zohar says that the song of the Ge’ulah will be single, double, triple, and quadruple. Therefore, “na, nach, nachma, nachman” is the song of the Ge’ulah because it has one letter, then two letters, then three, then four. “Me’uman” is just stating where Rabbi Nachman was from.October 10, 2013 12:38 am at 12:38 am #978630interjectionParticipant
“Chabad might be a debate, but at least there are strong, strong opinions that they are okay.
No one supports Na Nach.”
Don’t kid yourself that the vitriol is directed only to na nachs. The nastiness is being aimed to all breslevers.October 13, 2013 9:29 am at 9:29 am #978632
“No one supports Na Nach.” 🙂 🙂 🙂
What do you mean? They are the most popular group in Israel.
See here –
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