May 17, 2012 11:54 pm at 11:54 pm #603463
Who here has unfiltered internet, at home or work, and what is your justification (if any) for having unfiltered internet?May 17, 2012 11:57 pm at 11:57 pm #876568LogicianParticipant
Me. ‘cuz I like to look at schmutz. Then I come to the CR and make of fun of citifield.May 18, 2012 12:00 am at 12:00 am #876569147Participant
I invest in a filter on my faucet, so this takes care of my Chiyuvim as well as budget towards filters.May 18, 2012 12:03 am at 12:03 am #876570ZeesKiteParticipant
I didn’t think it’s a wise thing to proclaim out and in the open so boldly. Wait at least until after the Asifa.
???? ??? ??? ????? ????
It borders on chilul HaShem.May 18, 2012 1:43 am at 1:43 am #876571writersoulParticipant
Ummm…. nice and relevant topic! And not at all personal— no, definitely not personal!May 18, 2012 2:00 am at 2:00 am #876572WolfishMusingsParticipant
I have unfiltered internet at work. My justification is that that’s the policy that the IT department has implemented and I am in position to be making demands regarding the IT policy of a large multinational corporation.
Yes, I know that that makes me a worse rasha than Hitler, Bilaam, Pharoah and Haman combined.
The WolfMay 18, 2012 2:07 am at 2:07 am #876573
Wolf, at home do you have a filter that operates when you use the computer?
What about on your internet-enabled cellphone?May 18, 2012 2:13 am at 2:13 am #876574WolfishMusingsParticipant
Wolf, at home do you have a filter that operates when you use the computer?
What about on your internet-enabled cellphone?
No. But we already agree that I’m a horrible person who is detested by any and all who come into contact with me and who has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
The WolfMay 18, 2012 2:24 am at 2:24 am #876575YW Moderator-42Moderator
My apple barks at meMay 18, 2012 2:30 am at 2:30 am #876576rabbiofberlinParticipant
yech- I hate filters of any kind…..unfiltered apple juice is much healthier…unfiltered OJ is delicious…..unfiltered water…oy, I am drinking little crabs!May 18, 2012 3:45 am at 3:45 am #876577🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
42 : mine too. and so do my kids sometimes.May 18, 2012 7:01 pm at 7:01 pm #876579NaysbergMember
How can a cellphone, that is not a smartphone, that uses a java browser like Opera Mini be filtered? As far as I know it can’t be done.May 19, 2012 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #876580
I’ll be honest: yes, I do have unfiltered internet.
1) I speak numerous languages and use content in numerous languages. I doubt most filters know more than 1 language (English, in general).
2) I am an IT specialist and could easily bypass any filter. I don’t like to boast, but honestly, a filter wouldn’t stop me. Or maybe it would, in which case it would damage my work. Part of my job is that I have my own lab system running at home (with about 30 devices, physical and virtual), running enterprise-grade software and accessible by VPN from outside. The system being accessible via VPN from outside means VPN the other way would also work, thereby bypassing any ISP filtering. Software filtering would easily fail if after connecting to that VPN you would connect somewhere else via RDP (for example some desktop at work if connect by VPN into the company network and access some virtual desktop by RDP there).
Thus, the only thing a filter would mean for me would be a potential hassle and bother to my ability to work, and at most an inconvenience should I ?”? want to access any inappropriate content. Meaning it’s a lose-lose situation and meaning I’m not going to do it, ever.May 20, 2012 2:19 am at 2:19 am #876581
Baruch Hashem I see that no one has defended unfiltered internet.May 20, 2012 2:52 am at 2:52 am #876582chaimboruchMember
I have a quasi-filter, i use the filtering that is installed on my computer with my anti-virus– is that good?May 20, 2012 4:20 am at 4:20 am #876583
if you work in IT it is very hard to use a filter – i know that in my case using a filter could cost me thousands of dollars if it decides to block the wrong site at the wrong time. i do a lot of my work from home so i dont have the luxury of being able to filter.May 20, 2012 4:48 am at 4:48 am #876584
jbaldy, can you please explain specifically how you can lose thousands of dollars if a site is filtered? If it is mistakenly filtered, it can be removed from the filter.May 20, 2012 5:36 am at 5:36 am #876585
Lets say i am running a web scraper and the filter decides to filter out a site – can u not see how that could cause a huge monetary loss. i need to deal with a plethora of new sites and correcting the filter every time is highly impractical. in addition the market moves very quickly and there have been plenty of times where huge losses would have resulted if a website had been mistakenly blocked.May 20, 2012 5:42 am at 5:42 am #876586
Specifically how can it cause you a huge monetary loss?May 20, 2012 5:48 am at 5:48 am #876587
Those who claim that they need unfiltered internet – Am I correct to assume that a monitoring system such as Web Chaver would not get in the way?May 20, 2012 6:42 am at 6:42 am #876588
My justification is that I have a brain. I’ll admit I used to not be able to control myself when I was younger. But I overcame my addiction and have self-control.May 20, 2012 6:43 am at 6:43 am #876589
people are going to look for ways to get around the filter.May 20, 2012 6:45 am at 6:45 am #876590
Remember a few weeks ago how the Australian government was getting ready to spend many millions of dollars on internet porn filters? We ridiculed the second part of the plan, which was to force ISPs to filter the internet, but the first part of the plan was to hand out free client-side filters that could be installed on computers by parents. The cost to the government was a mere $84 million Australian (about $70 million US). It should come as no surprise, though, that a teenager claims it took him all of about half an hour to crack the filter. Even better, he says he did so in a way that the icon still shows on the computer, so parents will think the software is still working. Of course, there are always ways to get around filters and it’s not hard for many kids to figure them out. Still, rather than recognizing that the government has wasted many millions of dollars on a futile program, one of the main political backers of the program said it only highlights why the country needs to spend even more on filters, including those ISP filters that won’t work either.May 20, 2012 10:29 am at 10:29 am #876591ToiParticipant
i no longer post but that post by lakewhut needs to be edited. i feel that this site can no longer be called clean for bnei torah.May 20, 2012 1:07 pm at 1:07 pm #876593
“people are going to look for ways to get around the filter.”
According to your previous post, not people with a brain.May 20, 2012 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #876594
Which reminds me of this:
(see comment #1)May 20, 2012 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #876595zahavasdadParticipant
Some people make incomes off ebay, Amazon, Yahoo and others.
These sites have been filtered. Satmar bans Yahoo for example because there is entertainment newsMay 20, 2012 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #876596
@shein i understand from your answer that you do not work in the tech industry – the way a scraper works you may never know if or why something is being blocked by a filter unless you carefully analyze the results and a lot of deals are extremely time sensitive if you speak to someone who works as in the tech industry they will probably do a better job of explaining it to you.
@DaasYochid try telling your boss/investors that you want someone looking at your history and see how far that gets you. (especially if you work for a data aggregation company)May 20, 2012 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #876597writersoulParticipant
While I don’t fully agree with lakewhut, I believe that a lot of people are missing the boat— before you can ban or filter, you need to teach about SAFE INTERNET USE.
There was a lecture by R Zecharya Wallerstein going around, and it talked about a really horrible thing that happened to a girl because of someone she met on the internet. I cannot even come close to understanding the tzara that this family is going through, but the thing that irked me was that R Wallerstein kept saying, as a persistent refrain, “Get off the internet.” Why did that irk me? Because that wasn’t the moral of the story.
I will not be going into the story, but even from what I’ve said already, the moral is clearly DON’T TALK TO STRANGERS! Whether on the internet or in real life! Whether male or female (because there is a potential, possibly slight but still there, that they are not the one they say they are)! So what does it mean, that if someone can get kidnapped off a bus we shouldn’t ride buses?
We need to educate teens (and, quite frankly, adults, if only that they can stay alert to the dangers) about using the internet RESPONSIBLY.
1) Only “friend” people you know (call them to confirm that they “friended” you)
2) Do you really need social networking? I’ve always wondered why people do.
3) Don’t talk to strangers! Don’t tell them your name! Don’t give them your email address! Just DON’T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL!!!
4) Memorize #3
Honestly, if you ask any kid, they will know that they’re not allowed to talk to strangers, take candy from strangers, etc. But do they understand not to talk to strangers online? That is really what we need to make sure, even before we talk about filters and stuff like that, because it’s just sechel, and because there will always be kids who will break the filters. They need to be educated and KNOW about the dangers, or you’re just leaving them, not knowing how to swim, in the middle of an ocean filled with man-eating crocodiles.May 20, 2012 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #876598
Why not?May 20, 2012 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #876599akupermaParticipant
I use unfiltered telephone (I hang up anything I don’t want to hear) and unfilterd mail service (I throw stuff straight into the wastepaper basket if I dont’ want to read it). We deal with unfiltered books (we don’t look at “inappropriate one”). We try to deal with unfiltered people (anyone have any success not hearing Loshon Hora?).May 20, 2012 10:58 pm at 10:58 pm #876600dash™Participant
Lets say i am running a web scraper and the filter decides to filter out a site – can u not see how that could cause a huge monetary loss. i need to deal with a plethora of new sites and correcting the filter every time is highly impractical. in addition the market moves very quickly and there have been plenty of times where huge losses would have resulted if a website had been mistakenly blocked.
Anyone in the position of running a business critical web scaper hopefully has enough sence to run it on a computer othan than the workstation used for daily work.May 21, 2012 5:22 am at 5:22 am #876601
why exactly – u assume that u are aware of everyone’s business needs – todays workstations are more than capable of handling many tasks in a secure environment through virtualization in addition much of my testing is done on a workstation especially at home.May 21, 2012 12:06 pm at 12:06 pm #876602TheMusicManParticipant
Someone needs to invent a specialized browser that filters in-the-box, and disables all other browsers . Such a system should be set remotely from some server operated by some chassidish-type fellows, and to change your filter status at least a dozen emails should need to be sent back and forth, so a kid cannot change settings by sneaking the password from his parents, or by hijacking their email and sending status changes to an automated server. The browser should also feature https filtering, so it could not be bypassed by using https proxys. All filters can be bypassed, but this would need the actual programming implementation to be modified, and there are very few people who can do that.May 21, 2012 12:36 pm at 12:36 pm #876603CsarMember
Stop looking for excuses.May 21, 2012 1:21 pm at 1:21 pm #876604
@DaasYochid try telling your boss/investors that you want someone looking at your history and see how far that gets you. (especially if you work for a data aggregation company)
Have your boss check your history.May 21, 2012 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #876605shmoelMember
The Gedolei Yisroel announced at the Kinus last night that the poskim across the United States, Eretz Yisroel and the world have issued a binding psak din upon Klal Yisroel that unfiltered internet is assur under any and all circumstances.
There is nothing to discuss. Unfiltered internet is eating chazir and having a treif kitchen.May 21, 2012 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #876606Feif UnParticipant
Really? Which poskim would those be? The ones from the groups they didn’t invite? Was R’ Schachter asked his opinion? What about R’ Aharon Lichtenstein?May 21, 2012 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #876607HealthParticipant
shmoel – Ok; and they will throw out kids from school whose parents have the Net because they said All Net is Assur. The only Heter for a filter is for Parnassa.
Poskim across the United States, Eretz Yisroel and the world have issued a binding psak din upon Klal Yisroel that smoking, driving without seatbelts, driving while talking on the cell, being an alcoholic, not wearing a helmet during sports activities, not wearing a reflector at nite, reckless driving & excessive speeding
is Assur under any and all circumstances. And let’s not forget that most people while talking on the regular telephone to their friends end up speaking LH.
There is nothing to discuss. All the above things are eating Chazir and having a Treif kitchen.
If they decide to throw out e/o who does any of the above things, perhaps there will be one or two people left in every Yeshiva.May 21, 2012 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #876608enlightenedjewMember
I have a filter. It’s behind my eyes and between my ears.May 21, 2012 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #876609cherrybimParticipant
akuperma – “I use unfiltered telephone…”
While I attended the Asifa and have mixed opinions about it, I could not have said it better than akuperma did.
“…unfiltered internet is assur under any and all circumstances…Unfiltered internet is eating chazir and having a treif kitchen.”
Excuse me, but I will take these words seriously when I hear the poskim and Rabbonim proclaim publically to their flocks, their chasidim and talmidim; that smoking is assur under any and all circumstances, and that smoking is eating chazir and having a treif kitchen.
We all know that smoking is the cause of early death, young widowed wives and orphans, kids off the derech, broken famalies, money and sholom bais problems; to name a few. So how about it G’dolim, with all due respect?May 21, 2012 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #876610cb1Member
Unfiltered internet is eating chazir and having a treif kitchen.
Is that considered a heter to eat chazir?!?! (I have always wanted to eat chazir, my non-jewish co-workers claim it tastes like heaven 🙂 )
Or does it mean that if i have unfiltered internet, then i’m going straight to gehenom?? In any case, I did not go to the asifa yesterday, nor will i remove my fb & twitter accounts. I will also not put on a filter in my office due to the fact that the business cannot run with a filter, and i won’t put on a filter in my home because i believe i’m old enough to differentiate between good & bad and stay away from the bad.May 21, 2012 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #876611
Really? Which poskim would those be?
R’ Shmuel Halevi Wosner, for one. R’ Chaim Kanievsky also released a written psak to the same effect.May 21, 2012 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #876612Sam2Participant
Feif: I was told Rav Schachter wanted to go and was asked not to attend. Anyway, he is very Machmir on the internet as well. I believe he says that your computer should have a password and only your roommate (not yourself) should know the password.May 21, 2012 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #876613
Was R’ Schachter asked his opinion? What about R’ Aharon Lichtenstein?
Did they said a differing opinion?May 21, 2012 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #876614Kosher HamMember
I’d like to use a filter, but there’s no filter available for my A1200 computer.May 21, 2012 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #876615cherrybimParticipant
There was one YU Rosh Yeshiva on the dais.May 21, 2012 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #876616
@DaasYochid – “Those who claim that they need unfiltered internet – Am I correct to assume that a monitoring system such as Web Chaver would not get in the way?”
1) Would it work inside VMs?
2) Would it work inside RDP windows?
3) Does it support Red Hat? Or Solaris?
Based on what I understand, the answers are no & no & no. Can anyone tell me of any filter that will support the above? Nope, you can’t, because it doesn’t exist. End of story.May 21, 2012 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #876617shmoelMember
Between having unfiltered internet in ones home or office or rather having pork in your fridge, unfiltered internet is far worse. No one will talk themself into that the pork is kosher. If someone observes your pork filled fridge, he won’t mistaken that pork might be kosher. OTOH, if you have unfiltered internet, you probably think that’s kosher. And you might be nichshal others to think it’s okay.May 21, 2012 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #876620AZParticipant
For the sake of clarification, Rav Wosner and Rav Chaim did NOT issue the same psak, not even REMOTELY similar.
I WISH Rav Wosner (and the rest of the speakers would have said what Rav Chaim wrote).
The take home message would have been SO powerful and SOOOO effective, and (thats what i had been told was THE goal and was going to be THE message.
Alas it was NOT the message, and thus it wasn’t so powerful and i’m petrified that it won’t be so effective..
How very sad……
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