USA ANTISEMITISM

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  • #1691738

    writer
    Participant

    Joseph-“And the IDF is not more likely to save Yidden than the US Army is. In fact, the IDF already does look at many Yidden as the enemy, tries to forcibly conscript them into their secular anti-Torah melting pot to shmad them into their anti-religious Israeli society. The IDF is less likely to save the Yidden they hate than the US Army is.”

    In event of war the army would fight to protect all citizens. IDF trying to draft bochurim has nothing to do with the actual soldiers who fight. Bochurim drafted is a whole other topic and in fact there have been many “bochurim” who just use yeshiva as an excuse to not be drafted when though they can hardly be called a yeshiva bochur. But that’s not the point. Let’s be real there’s no way the israeli army could pick and choose who to protect in event of war. That’s just silly.

    Of course the American army is strong and capable but we are talking of an event if CH”V there is open anti semitism, who said they would turn on you? It’s happened in all other countries in the past.

    And Neville and apukerma, yes for now things are still tolerable, but we are seeing things slowly changing and becoming more accepted and encouraged. It’s not true that most people condemned Omar. In fact many came out to defend her saying she has no anti semitic intentions, including Nancy pelosi, AOC and many others also “our very own” Bernie Sanders.

    “Things are more out of control in Israel than in the English speaking countries.”

    – yes but anti semitism grows out if control real quick if not stopped while it’s still possible to stop it.
    All political views on Israel aside, let’s be real for a second. If anything happened Israelis would be United no matter political or religious levels. Its always been the case during war.

    #1691741

    2scents
    Participant

    Nowdays with social media things are pretty scary.

    It doesnt take much for something to spread quickly.

    Ye this also means that awareness and educating prople about anti semitism nonsense is also doable. If only it would have been done.

    #1691754

    Joseph
    Participant

    writer: It’s been the case that the US protected its Jewish citizens as well as Jews outside its borders. On the other hand, we know from Jewish history that anti-Torah Jews caused the most problems for Torah Jews. There’s no reason to think the Zionists are any better and ever reason to see they’re far worse than the goyim.

    #1691765

    Freddyfish
    Participant

    Move to new zealand toxic chemicals can’t get there easily!!!

    #1691972

    writer
    Participant

    Joseph you aren’t making any sense. Do you really think that if Israel as it is today was around in the times of the Holocaust wouldn’t try to protect the Jews or do you think the nasty zionists would also make a Holocaust in Israel?

    No matter what the political views are, Israel would be the safest place for Jews in event of anti semitism.

    #1692007

    Joseph
    Participant

    That’s incorrect. Israel is not safe or safer from antisemitism. Are American/European/Australian Jews as threatened by Iranian nukes or Hamas suicide bombers or an Arab country attacking as Israeli Jews are threatened?

    The fact remains that the bottom line is more Jews are killed in Israel than anywhere else in the world. As a practical matter Israel is the most dangerous country for a Jew to live.

    #1692184

    writer
    Participant

    Joseph you keep giving examples of external enemies attacking and waging war. That’s not considered anti semitism by definition or government waged anti semitism on its own people. Those are just enemies.

    ” As a practical matter Israel is the most dangerous country for a Jew to live.”

    In event of anti semitism outbreak in foreign lands, it would be safest for Jews. I doubt that the israeli government would share interest in a Holocaust on its own people.

    #1692225

    Joseph
    Participant

    “external enemies attacking” is the most basic example of antisemitism. Whether it is Hamas doing a suicide attack or the Klu Klux Klan breaking a shuls windows.

    And Hamas kills more Jews in Israel than antisemites outside of Israel kills Jews.

    If you want to discuss government sponsored attacks on Jews, that’s never happened in America and there’s no reason to think it is more likely today or tomorrow than it was yesterday or ten or twenty years ago. In Israel, there is reason to suspect the government coming against Torah Jews.

    #1692335

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “And Neville and apukerma, yes for now things are still tolerable, but we are seeing things slowly changing and becoming more accepted and encouraged. ”
    What we’re trying to tell you is that even if it was an extremely quick rate of change (which it’s not by your own words), it would take a century or more for the US to catch up with Israel in terms of danger.

    You can try to get people to move to Israel. There are religious advantages; there are all kinds of arguments you could make, but not the “safe-haven” argument. The fact that 19th century philosophers dreamt of a Jewish safe haven in eretz Yisrael has no relevance because that entity does not exist. It’s a dangerous place. There’s no more point in turning the blind eye to that reality than there is to turning the blind eye to the Antisemitism in the US you’re talking about.

    #1692361

    writer
    Participant

    Joseph “-If you want to discuss government sponsored attacks on Jews, that’s never happened in America and there’s no reason to think it is more likely today or tomorrow than it was yesterday or ten or twenty years ago. ”

    -What makes you so confident? Things go downhill fast when they do.

    Neville-“What we’re trying to tell you is that even if it was an extremely quick rate of change (which it’s not by your own words), it would take a century or more for the US to catch up with Israel in terms of danger.”

    -Really? Anti semitism outbreak would take a century or more? I was always aware those things practically happen overnight.

    “What we’re trying to tell you is that even if it was an extremely quick rate of change (which it’s not by your own words), it would take a century or more for the US to catch up with Israel in terms of danger.”

    -Not my intention to make a campaign to move to Israel. However I do believe it would be the safest place on the planet for Jews in case of global anti semitism. Theres no comparison between living in the land that belongs to you no matter what people say, than in a foreign land. Again we arent competing between Hamas attacks in Israel or the USA. We are raising a condition in case of open anti semitism, would it still feel safe to live in the USA? Giving examples of known enemies attacking Israel is not the same issue at all. You would never feel threatened by anti semitism in Israel. There is no such thing since anti semitism outbreak comes from the government. Meaning they choose if they fight it or actually encourage it. Its how its always been. Im pretty sure that would never happen is Israel. Especially not by Jewish government no matter how leftist they are.

    In america its a different story. You have “Jews” such as Bernie Sanders defending blatant enemies such as Omar who by the way will grow stronger and stronger. Noone can shut down such an evil mouth. And most dont seem to want to either. And its not just her, its that woman Talib, and the great intelligent AOC bartender. Such “smart empowering” women. “Defenders of race”, minority leaders, fighting against discrimination and treatment of women. You get the picture. And people seem to like that trendy topic.

    #1692415

    Joseph
    Participant

    writer: You’re foolishly parroting over and over the same unintelligent points that Israel is always safer than elsewhere, no matter what, simply because you assert so.

    #1692424

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Yeah, if it’s your religious shittah that Israel is miraculous and defies logic, then there’s not much point in arguing farther. If you want to talk within the realm of logic, then you have no leg to stand on. As several of us have told you many times, you are statistically way more likely to be the victim of Antisemitism in Israel than anywhere else.

    As far as an outburst happening overnight, which by the way is not actually how it historically has worked, the question would still be why would you be safe in Israel? If the industrialized world was taken over by Nazi rhetoric, they’re not going to just target the Jews in chutz and leave Israel alone.

    #1692426

    writer
    Participant

    Well Joseph I’m only responding to your broken record about Hamas and other external enemies attacking Israel. You should understand that this topic is about anti semitism outbreaks in foreign non Jewish lands. Not about external enemies attacking a country. Every country deals with threats from enemies. Yes in case of global anti semitism Israel would be the only place where for sure the government would not institute killing of Jews by the government and army themselves(Germany,Rome,Persia,Egypt,Russia,Spain etc.)

    We hope nothing will ever come to this but we are seeing things unfolding. There’s no denying that anti semitism is being unleashed in the world and awoken. It must be stopped early if even possible at all. And there isn’t enough being done about it. I’m sure most of the world is comfortable with that and actually encourage it.

    So let’s keep to the topic please. Thanks.

    #1692443

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    So, the original topic was that Antisemitism is bad in the US currently. But, when we try to define “bad” by comparing to past times, you tell us we can’t do that. When we try to compare to other countries, you tell us we can’t do that. So, it boils down to: Antisemitism is a bad thing happening to some non-quantifiable degree in the US, and as Jews it should concern us. Why would such a thread even get more than 2 replies? You should be happy if we misinterpreted it.

    #1692441

    writer
    Participant

    Nevillle-“As far as an outburst happening overnight, which by the way is not actually how it historically has worked, the question would still be why would you be safe in Israel? If the industrialized world was taken over by Nazi rhetoric, they’re not going to just target the Jews in chutz and leave Israel alone.”

    -ever heard of kristallnacht?

    And yes of course a nation who is powerful enough to conquer the world night try to get at Israel as well, but there is still someone (an army) who is willing to fight on your behalf for as long as they can, rather than fight you or round you up. That’s the difference. Also again if a country were to invade Israel, that isn’t anti semitism it would be war. Anti semitism is a very scary thing when you are in a foreign land surrounded by wolves. There is nowhere to run. It’s different when it comes to war.

    #1692478

    writer
    Participant

    “So, the original topic was that Antisemitism is bad in the US currently.”

    -no Neville the topic is that anti semitism is getting WORSE in the US especially from politicians and that we should be aware and not simply ignore as is so comfortable for most to do.
    Also don’t be jealous if my thread got more than 2 replies. But thanks for contributing seems you were interested enough ; )

    #1692703

    Naftush-2
    Participant

    So it’s the “where are we safer” debate again and Joseph and others argue the bodycount way and declare Israel the loser. Two problems: first, they don’t use data to back their tally. Fact; in goyish year 2018, 12 Israelis hy’d lost their lives to terrorism. This is from the Meir Amit Terrorism and Intelligence Information Center. Second, that unfortunate count is 12 out of more than six million. Let’s assume that no Jews lost their lives to terrorism in 2018. So it’s 12 to 0. But another fact: For an individual living among a population of millions, the count of 12, or of 0, or the difference between the two, is statistically meaningless. Jews are not in measurable danger of death by terrorism in either location, or really anywhere.

    #1692707

    Naftush-2
    Participant

    So it’s the “Where are we safer?” debate again and Joseph and others argue the bodycount way and declare Israel the loser. Two problems: first, they don’t use data to back their tally. Fact; in goyish year 2018, 12 Israelis hy’d lost their lives to terrorism. This is from the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center. Second, that unfortunate count is 12 out of more than six million. Let’s assume that no Jews lost their lives to terrorism in 2018. So it’s 12 to 0. But another fact: For an individual living among a population of millions, the count of 12, or of 0, or the difference between the two, is statistically meaningless. Jews are not in measurable danger of death by terrorism in either location, or really anywhere.

    #1692747

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “ever heard of kristallnacht?”
    Surely you can’t be serious. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf (which became a best-seller), detailing his Anti-semitic opinions in 1925 and came to power in 1933. Kriallnacht was in 1938. Pogroms had been happening in Europe for centuries. It was not an overnight change in public attitude towards the Jews and I’ve never heard any historian claim that it was.

    I still don’t see where you’re getting that people are ignoring the Antisemitism in the US. You can state evidence of it worsening, but who’s ignoring it? It seems like your goal isn’t actually to get us to stop ignoring the Antisemitism in the US, but rather to get us to START ignoring all the Antisemitism in Israel and elsewhere.

    #1693168

    writer
    Participant

    Neville “Surely you can’t be serious. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf (which became a best-seller), detailing his Anti-semitic opinions in 1925 and came to power in 1933. Kriallnacht was in 1938.”

    Noone takes anyone seriously when it’s just thoughts. Most have anti semitic thoughts doesn’t mean they actually do something. Yes he came into power in that year and those years were the warning signs which is the whole point of this topic. And once kristallnacht happened it was basically an overnight thing.

    “It seems like your goal isn’t actually to get us to stop ignoring the Antisemitism in the US, but rather to get us to START ignoring all the Antisemitism in Israel and elsewhere.”

    You keep mentioning anti semitism in Israel, there is no anti semitism in Israel! Last I’ve checked the government is still Jewish. And no, not igniring the global anti semitism I’ve already brought that up. Besides Europe is known for it’s hatred towards Jews nothing changed and nothing new as far as that goes. But here in the land of the free we have gotten used to peaceful times, but we see it changing. Slowly, yes. But again it usually happens slowly until it reaches the point of overnight breakout c”v. And that’s what needs to be stopped so it doesn’t get to that point.

    Maybe not everyone is ignoring but not enough is being done about it. Besides most of the Democratic party has either been silent or actually came out to defend the hatred of Omar towards Jews. Just wondering how many riots would have been going on if the N word started appearing all over the city. Oh boy I could just imagine how many people would speak out against it.

    Just wondering if these are all warning signs.

    #1693189

    Its all from Hashem.

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