Using Air Conditioners Is Assur

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  • #1511799

    screwdriverdelight
    Participant

    I’m always amazed by how many frum people use air conditioner. Those who are makpid on the best hechsheirim, longest tichels, and most sparkling white shirts suddenly become lenient in using AC, which is completely assur. First of all, it’s a disregard of “V’nishmartem m’od l’nafshoseichem,” as is proven by the exploding air conditioner recently in the news. (Shomeir P’sayim Hasheim doesn’t apply here, either.) Plus, if Hasheim made the weather hot, what right do we have to change that?
    I discussed this topic with many prominent rabbanim, but didn’t hear any satisfactory limud z’chus on this widespread “minhag”.

    #1511930

    DovidBT
    Participant

    Plus, if Hasheim made the weather hot, what right do we have to change that?

    Wouldn’t that apply equally to cold weather?

    #1511992

    icemelter
    Participant

    This will be interesting…

    #1511989

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Purim was about a month and a Half Ago

    #1511983

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “Wouldn’t that apply equally to cold weather?”

    why would you want to use an AC in cold weather? perhaps you plan on installing it backwards?

    #1511982

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    A joke comes to mind from the Levushai Mordechai where someone asked him if she can have anesthesia to give birth because the Torah says that a woman will have pain when giving birth. He said, according to you what it says והיית משוגע means that there is a mitzvah to be a meshigener.

    #1511977

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “Plus, if Hasheim made the weather hot, what right do we have to change that?”

    Ah, but He made air conditioners too!

    #1511976

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Torah is matir to go to a doctor, even though Hashem wanted you to be sick. It is a mitzva for a doctor to cure you. You can have cosmetic surgery because it makes you feel good. The Torah wants you to improve yourself spiritually and physically as we do circumcision. It is true that the Ramban in Parshas Bechuchasai on the pasuk ואולך אתכם קוממיות says that there will be a time when our great trust in Hashem will forbade us to go to the doctor not the disturb the יסורים של אהבה.

    #1511974

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    There are many heilege rabbonim who has paskind that anything that didn’t exist at the time of briyas ha’olam is per se assur to derive any benefit from. There are some rabbonim who a makil and have moved the timeline forward and said that the benchmark should be to assur anything that was invented or adopted subsequent to the golden age of yiddishkeit in the pre-War Alte Heim.

    #1511987

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    screwdriverdelightParticipant

    I’m always amazed by how many frum people use air conditioner. Those who are makpid on the best hechsheirim, longest tichels, and most sparkling white shirts suddenly become lenient in using AC, which is completely assur. First of all, it’s a disregard of “V’nishmartem m’od l’nafshoseichem,” as is proven by the exploding air conditioner recently in the news. (Shomeir P’sayim Hasheim doesn’t apply here, either.) Plus, if Hasheim made the weather hot, what right do we have to change that?
    I discussed this topic with many prominent rabbanim, but didn’t hear any satisfactory limud z’chus on this widespread “minhag”
    ————————————
    What right do u have blogging on a computer? If hashem wanted you to blog he wouldve built a computer into your body. Ot hand delivered one to you on your birthday. Who gave you the right to go get one on your own?
    Also what rav gave you the heter to blog?

    #1512062

    icemelter
    Participant

    Is it a new trend to quote the whole OP opening comment? I mean we’ll get it even if you just quote the screen name or one or two lines. What’s with repasting the whole opening again for every reply?

    #1512063

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    Shouldn’t this thread be listed under Humor as opposed to Rants?
    Unless it qualifies as a humorous rant!

    #1512069

    icemelter
    Participant

    Having said that there is something to say about AC being very unnatural. Someone mentioned heat in winter. Not the same since heat is a natural source and can and always be used and was used in winter via fire. Nowadays we just have more compatible ways for heat in the house such as heaters/radiators. But when has anyone in history up to the last 100 years been able to cool off in the summer and fight the insane heat! Don’t forget that in general most of our tech has only come about in the last 100 years and maybe even less than that if you count the fact that technology has only been refined to a more practical use in the last few decades. Up until then the world has been living pretty much the same for hundreds and thousands of years! That’s why they also had much less of an issue applying halachos from shulchan aruch since it targeted the same type of era. It’s a great chessed to have all this tech that we take for granted and it’s something that previous generations only dreamed of. True the houses were built in ways to withstand heat and welcome ventilation and etc., But still…and I’m not even mentioning refrigerators,electicity/lighting, toilets, running water…the basic needs of living. Imagine you had none of that right now.

    #1512177

    Bobchka
    Participant

    I discussed this topic with many prominent rabbanim, but didn’t hear any satisfactory limud z’chus on this widespread “minhag”

    I don’t understand the problem. Minhag yisroel halacha.

    #1512130

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    if I recall correctly, R’ Moshe was asked about running an air conditioner on a timer for Shabbos. His answer did not indicate that using air conditioners were assur. As I heard many times from Rabbi Shlomo Perl A”H, he ran his air conditioners the entire Shabbos.

    #1512414

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    litvishechossidParticipant
    Is it a new trend to quote the whole OP opening comment? I mean we’ll get it even if you just quote the screen name or one or two lines. What’s with repasting the whole opening again for every reply?
    ————————————
    !למען שמעו ויראו

    #1512427

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Technology has discovered a new cure. We are happy that the doctor can heal him. We don’t say, we can’t use it because it is new.

    #1512441

    GAON
    Participant

    “Using Air Conditioners Is Assur”

    I guess the heat got to you!

    I hereby permit you (for various reasons) to immediately use the closest A/C available.

    #1512444

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Gaon, see my post 1511982.

    #1512457

    icemelter
    Participant

    Tango- yes but usually people at least read the opening comment to know what the discussion is about. So I remain strong on my point.

    #1512460

    thefatchanoch
    Participant

    honestly i do not agree with anything u said and it makes absolutely no sense to me
    what kind of question is that??????????

    #1512474

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    litvishechossidParticipant
    Tango- yes but usually people at least read the opening comment to know what the discussion is about. So I remain strong on my point.
    ——————————
    “Usually” is the key word. In my experience .
    Most do not read unless its in thier face.

    #1512492

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Plus, if Hasheim made the weather hot, what right do we have to change that?

    If HaShem made meat raw, what right do we have to change that through cooking it?

    The Wolf

    #1512503

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I believe I’ve heard this argument against painkillers for headaches.

    #1512559

    screwdriverdelight
    Participant

    I just love when people use R’ Moshe to prove AC is permitted. Don’t you realize he was niftar over 30 years ago and the mitzius has changed manyfold since then?

    #1512651

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “the mitzius has changed manyfold since then?”

    Certainly more trolls.

    #1512666

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I remember seeing somewhere that the Chofetz Chaim refused to learn by an electric light and would only learn by candlelight because he didnt want any modern technology

    #1512682

    Git Meshige
    Participant

    If Hashem made you grow hair on your head, what right do you have to take a haircut?
    If Hashem made the world without any cars, what right do we have to use them?
    Screwdriver delight, if Hashem created you with a brain, what right do you have not to use it?

    #1512692

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    screwloose….I mean Screwdriver delight: Are you trying to say that air conditioning is a new invention that wasn’t invented until after R’ Moshe was niftar? If you are, then your rant is worthless. I don’t believe any gadol has ever stated that air conditioning is outright assur. Proof? When R’ Moshe was asked about using timers for AC he would have said AC is assur not it is assur to use a timer to turn it on.

    #1512702

    gavriel613
    Participant

    The kasha is a to’us me’ikoro. AC doesn’t change the weather. The weather remains hot. Only inside your house is cooled.

    Furthermore, the coolness inside your house is balanced by the increased heat generated by the other half of the AC (which sits outside your window). So equilibrium is restored.

    #1512717

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Lololol…. Ha, Ha.. with a straight face yet.
    He’s licking pistachio ice cream cones as he reads your comments.
    Letz all use paper fans, hire fanners , and make his day.

    #1512715

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “I remember seeing somewhere that the Chofetz Chaim refused to learn by an electric light and would only learn by candlelight because he didnt want any modern technology”

    He transcribed all his seforim by hand? With a quill? On parchment?

    #1512721

    Meno
    Participant

    Furthermore, the coolness inside your house is balanced by the increased heat generated by the other half of the AC (which sits outside your window). So equilibrium is restored.

    The A/C actually gives off more heat on the outside than it removes from the air inside. Maybe the fact that it’s making it hotter outside should be an issue.

    #1512729

    That feeling when you’re not sure if the serious responses to an obvious
    troll comment are just trying to troll you into saying what I’ve just said.

    #1512758

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    He transcribed all his seforim by hand? With a quill? On parchment?

    Who decides at what point the technology is no longer “new” and can be used? After all, at one time, even quill and parchment were new technologies. Perhaps he should have had seforim pressed into clay tablets.

    The Wolf

    #1513069

    screwdriverdelight
    Participant

    The mitzius changed since R’ Moshe’s days. The ancient ACs were huge inconvenient machines which made a lot of noise and dimmed the lights during use. They barely made the air colder. I don’t even know if R’ Moshe was familiar with how they worked, but certainly the mitzius changed since then.
    Anyway, since when do we go with every kulah we find? Are you machmir on R’ Moshe’s chumros too, or just his kulos? Do you set timers on ACs on shabbos? If so, you contradict yourself.
    The Brisker Rav and R’ Tzvi Pesach Frank both didn’t have ACs; they obviously held they were assur, and also a lot of other gedolim.

    #1513085

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    SD: I don’t know how old you are but in the 1980’s the air conditioners in my house kept the rooms plenty cool and did not dim the lights. I disagree with your notion that R Moshe didn’t know how an air conditioner worked, What metzius changed? They are more efficient and quieter? Are you next going to claim one shouldn’t fly on an airplane because an engine blew on one? Can’t drive a car because it my catch fire? What about indoor plumbing? a pipe may burst. How far do you want to go?

    #1513124

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Taz’s view is that there is kedusha in printed seforim but the Torah Temimoh holds that the order of kedusha for seforim (torah on top of neviim on top of kesuvim) only applies to parchment.

    #1513126

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    Ivecharisma: The troll will go very far if he can keep pushing everyone’s buttons. Except AC buttons of course!

    #1513166

    Shtender Bender
    Participant

    May I ask if you use deodorant?
    And even if you did, would it help if you lived in Lakewood with out air conditioning?

    #1513196

    funnybone
    Participant

    Shomer pesayim Hashem.

    #1513198

    Joseph
    Participant

    Shtender Bender: How did we survive thousands of years without air conditioning, until for most people until less than a hundred years ago, and for many people until less than 50 years ago?

    #1513205

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    We suffered.

    #1513215

    Joseph
    Participant

    And we were happy people despite lacking it.

    #1513225

    icemelter
    Participant

    “How did we survive thousands of years without air conditioning, until for most people until less than a hundred years ago, and for many people until less than 50 years ago”

    -Houses were built differently with higher ceilings and other tricks to keep heat rising and specific window alignments to allow ventilation throughout the house. But ya in general there were times that were hot. But probably not as hot as the houses we live in which are built in a way that relies on indoor climate control.

    #1513235

    Joseph
    Participant

    “Houses were built differently”

    Many houses, and probably most in many areas of large cities, where built before air conditioning was widespread in residences. Including most houses in the biggest Jewish neighborhoods.

    #1513273

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    However, once it was invented and became widespread, we had a way to cool off. Yes, I heard how people used to sleep on the fire escapes of apartment buildings to try and cool off.

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