Using chessed vouchers for shabbos shoes—no. 2

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  • #955989
    interjection
    Participant

    People here seem to forget that it’s kids we are talking about. The mother went and bought things for her KIDS. It’s very likely that for herself she was willing to get a junky pair of shabbos shoes but at least she wanted her kids to have nice shoes to be proud of when they visit their friends on shabbos afternoon. I did go to the gemach for a lot of my wardrobe when I was younger and I was always mortified when my friends would ask where I got my clothes. But I remember having a couple nice pairs of shabbos shoes when I was younger and I wore them with such pride. I also remember feeling really sad for the kids in the park shabbos afternoon in sneakers. I don’t think it’s so terrible that tzeddaka money should be given so kids can have nice things to wear on shabbos.

    #955990
    Josh31
    Participant

    “Should Tomche Shabbos deliver chicken thighs or Sushi?”

    Sometimes Tomche Shabbos gets a load of Sushi leftover from a fancy Thursday night wedding.

    #955991

    I am very much in agreement with Syag and apushatayid. I think anyone who doesn’t think Shabbos shoes for those who can’t afford them are a very worthy form of tzeddakah are either clueless regarding today’s norms in the US, clueless about human nature (see interjection’s post; she gets it), and/or clueless about hilchos tzeddakah (which very much take into account the emotional needs of the recipients).

    ??? ???? ?? (????? ??, ?) – ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????

    (?????? ??)

    #955992
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I go to thrift stores all the time , you can get some really good deals there in fact there is a thrift store on Central Ave in the 5 towns right next door to all the fancy clothes stores and fancy restaurants. It isnt a big deal. Of course you have to rummage through the stuff to find the better stuff.

    And they dont only have clothes, they have Dishes , furniture and toys , games and other stuff.

    People shop at thrift stores all the time and there are plenty of them not even run by the Salvation Army (If you are worried about shopping there)

    Ill even tell you another secret, We buy most of our Shoes from payless and many times the shoes last just as long or longer as the shoes from the more expensive shoe stores.

    And if emotional needs are taken account, by that statement if a person like Sushi better than chicken (some people even hate chicken) rename Tomche Shabbos (Its english name is chickens for shabbos) , Sushi Shabbos and feel free to donate to it.

    #955993
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    People have convienced themselves that there is a stigma to shop at a thrift store or Payless.

    At one time there was a stigma to taking food stamps and Section 8.

    People have convienced themselves that its ok to take food stamps (without stigma) and section 8 and you have to use the eBt card (Food Stamps) in Public so everyone sees you and there is no Stigma. Go to KRM almost everyone there uses it.

    People just have to be convienced that its ok to shop at the thrift store and payless and the stigma will be gone

    #955994

    I think I explained clearly that the boys already have a GOOD pair of schoolshoes not payless or anything else. Anyone who works in shoes realises the importance of a good pair of shoes.

    I also explained clearly that vouchers were not originally given for shabboss shoes, the impression given was that the family cannot afford shoes, period.

    No one debates the halachos of tzedaka, ?? ?????? ??? ???? ?? nor does anyone debate today’s standard of living, the only point being, that as limited funds are available for tzedoko, perhaps the first priority should be essentials.

    If anyone here “gets it” it is goldersgreener’s first post.

    #955995

    Dr Uri Bakay

    Member

    Don’t you know what frum stands for?

    F: food stamps

    R: rent subsidies

    U: unemployment

    M: Medicaid

    Posted 7 hours ago

    Dr. your comparison is unreasonable and unfair.

    The various governtment programs are virtually unlimited, which tzedoko money isn’t, additionally much tzedoko has been given by people who are themselves tight. It’s unfair that when a person who doesn’t buy himself or his family luxuries gives money to tzedoko it goes towards someone else’s luxuries.

    #955996

    Just as an FYI to zdad- You would like to believe it is about stigma though posters are telling you it isn’t. I will throw in one more rendition for you: I only bought my kids shoes at payless. Only payless. Then, instead of lasting for 5-6 months, the average shoe lasted 2-3 weeks. I am NOT exaggerating. And they wouldn’t replace them. If I had money, I bought a new pair. If not, my child had a shoe with a detatched bottom that flapped around and let in rain. Then I stopped buying at payless.

    #955997
    MorahRach
    Member

    What does fargin mean?

    #955998
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    SY

    I bought the kiddos Shoes at a more expensive regular shoe store and you know what they were destroyed in 1 week (AND I had the receipt), When i bought them back the store refused to refund or exchange. I had to file a chargeback and complain to the shoe manufacture to get my $50 back. (This was a FRUM store BTW)

    Another shoe store I used to frequent only gives EXCHANGES within 2 weeks with a receipt and they are also somewhat high end.

    #955999
    MorahRach
    Member

    I just want to add something because I feel badly that I compared myself to poor/homeless and hungry people. It was my choice to stay home and not work this year, I easily could have stayed at my job, but I chose to be home with my son. While it was a financial struggle, I would not change a thing! We definitely had to adapt and change our lifestyle but I think it was worth it. I am iyH going back to work in a month or too, I am dreading leaving my son but it will be nice to be able to get some new clothing, easily afford gas for the car and maybe even put some $ into savings!

    #956000

    What does fargin mean?

    Like everything else in the world, there’s a CR thread about it.

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/what-is-the-english-word-for-fargin

    #956001

    MorahRach- the fact that you didn’t buy yourself new things this year doesn’t take away from the fact that the poor people do need them. A person is supposed to struggle to remain financially independent, even so far as eating the same food on Shabbos as they do during the week. Once a person is already taking tzeddaka money though, they’re supposed to live on a normal lifestyle. I don’t know about where everyone else lives, but where I live the norm is for a child to have special Shabbos shoes. When I was younger I didn’t get new shoes frequently enough and that caused permanent damage to my feet. I don’t think other kids should have to go through that. Let’s fargin these people decent shoes…

    #956002

    as limited funds are available for tzedoko, perhaps the first priority should be essentials.

    If you’re talking about a Gucci tie or Coach handbag, I’d agree. We’re talking about kids’ Shabbos shoes, which if they wouldn’t have, would cause them to feel inferior. It is very unhealthy for kids to feel that they’re missing something basic which their peers have. Anyone who can’t understand this doesn’t get it.

    #956003
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    I bought the kiddos Shoes at a more expensive regular shoe store and you know what they were destroyed in 1 week (AND I had the receipt), When i bought them back the store refused to refund or exchange. I had to file a chargeback and complain to the shoe manufacture to get my $50 back. (This was a FRUM store BTW)

    Had it been a non-Jewish store, you would have gotten a full refund. πŸ™

    You should buy name brand shoes, the other ones are bad for your feet. Are “kiddos” like “skechers”?

    #956004
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    If I had money, I bought a new pair. If not, my child had a shoe with a detatched bottom that flapped around and let in rain. Then I stopped buying at payless.

    I’m sorry to hear that, but I don’t think it to be uncommon (and it has happened to me as well. One pair per year, and live with it).

    On the other hand, some people like to feel the ground while they are walking. A few can even tell where they are with their eyes shut (and it comes in handy), just by feeling the street type on their feet. For example, the “toe glove” type shoes were very popular a few years back.

    #956005

    Had it been a non-Jewish store, you would have gotten a full refund. πŸ™

    Because they’re not dealing with a customer base which would put them out of business with a generous return policy. πŸ™

    #956006
    MorahRach
    Member

    My phone isn’t letting me click the link can so

    Some just translate fargin?

    #956007
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    GAW,

    Kiddos was not the brand, It was slang for Kids

    it was a brand name

    I contacted the manufacturer and they sent me a $50 check apologzing for the poor quality.

    #956008
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Because they’re not dealing with a customer base which would put them out of business with a generous return policy. πŸ™

    Correct. Wal Mart in Monticello had to change their “generous return policy” due to its customer base. A Chillul Shem Shomayim.

    I contacted the manufacturer and they sent me a $50 check apologzing for the poor quality.

    In that case, don’t mention it here. I can just see them getting a slew of letters.

    #956009
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I was due the money, The sole of the shoe came totally off after one week of wearing them.

    I dont return things to the store unless there really is a problem

    #956010

    MorahRach- Fargin is a very hard word to translate or else I would have used an English word. It means basically to allow them to have it with pleasure… I guess. I can’t translate it exactly.

    #956011
    Dr Uri Bakay
    Member

    People in Monticello would go into Walmart at the beginning of July and buy an air conditioner, and since you can return stuff up to 60 days later would come back at end of August and get a full refund. The president of Walmart sent a letter to the Agudah about this and since then there is no more refunds at Walmart on A/C’s.

    #956012
    oomis
    Participant

    Tzedaka comes in many forms. Who is to say whether or not real tzedaka lies in helping a child to get a pair of nice Shabbos shoes that he might otherwise not be able to afford, so that he could feel more like the other kids in school? And before anyone says, “That’s giving in to peer pressure,” I didn’t say to get him $100 shoes. But a nice pair of Shabbos shoes is not too much to ask.

    #956013

    Oomis is being quite reasonable (I’m not sure that $100 is so much for a pair of decent Shabbos shoes, though).

    #956014
    writersoul
    Participant

    When I was a kid I always got my Shabbos shoes from Payless, starting from when I was about seven. They were fine. My family isn’t poor, ch”v, my mom just likes to get deals.

    However, I can very easily see why a parent would want better shoes for his/her kids, especially if these are their shoes for the season. If someone is willing to donate the money for the shoes, and the parents decide that this is what they want to spend the money they receive on, then gezunte heit.

    I always consider myself lucky that I b”h am fortunate to have everything I need and a very decent amount of what I want :)- I’m not going to make judgments on what other people have or get.

    #956015
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    $100 for shoes???

    Ive NEVER spent that much for anyone on a pair even at a better store

    #956016
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    ZD:

    The bigger issue is that many people (nothing to do with frum, Charaidi or purple) have no idea how to budget, save or spend appropriately. People who need shoes go buy shoes (which may be $100+), when they should be spending $30 on shoes and the other $70 on things like food, rent and tuition. I am (nebuch) aware of such individuals, and it is a nebuch, as they don’t have what they need and can’t comprehend why not.

    The second point that needs to be made is peer pressure is a very large factor in what some people purchase. I heard recently something about “red soled” shoes. I don’t know why someone would care about such a thing, but if there is pressure to wear them, then someone may buy them no matter the cost.

    Finally, there are people who have problems with their feet who need to buy orthopedic or extremely high quality shoes, and it is worth the money spent.

    #956017

    Eccos (well made, not fancy AFAIK) run $180, I think, at Hat Box. Florsheim and Rockport are around $100 IIRC.

    #956018
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    $180 is Fancy Shoes for me, I have never and would never spend that much on shoes.

    You need to learn to shop better and not learn to take Tzedkah for that

    People need to lose the Gashmius if they are spending $180 on a pair of shoes

    #956019
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Eccos (well made, not fancy AFAIK) run $180, I think, at Hat Box. Florsheim and Rockport are around $100 IIRC.

    Is that due to their actual cost or NYC pricing?

    Edit: A quick look at Zappos shows ECCO for $140.

    You really do prove my point, though. Someone who is “using Chessed Vouchers” should not be shopping at the expensive stores, but buying them for cheaper and using the money elsewhere. I’ve bought Bostonians (which are the same as Florshiems) for $30-$40.

    #956020

    I don’t buy them, but people whose feet ache do buy them and it’s not wasteful.

    #956021

    zahavasdad- while I never really spend more than $40 on a pair of shoes, I don’t think it’s that terrible if someone else spends $200. If that’s what they need to make them feel decent, so be it. As long as they really need those shoes, not just buying them BECAUSE they got the money from tzedaka anyhow.

    #956022
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    “The president of Walmart sent a letter to the Agudah about this “

    You made this up.

    #956023

    Someone who is “using Chessed Vouchers” should not be shopping at the expensive stores

    The vouchers, I think, are given for specific stores.

    #956024
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    “$100 for shoes???

    Ive NEVER spent that much for anyone on a pair even at a better store”

    And you wonder why the soles came off after a week. You buy a poorly made pair of shoes, abuse them and go charging into the store and demand a refund.

    #956025

    I’ve bought Bostonians (which are the same as Florshiems)

    Is that your opinion, or are they literally the same shoes?

    #956026
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    “$180 is Fancy Shoes for me, I have never and would never spend that much on shoes.”

    Although you have no issue with non-jews who spend hundreds on a pair of snealers and often.

    It is only a chariedi whom you would have an issue with.

    #956027
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Actually I have a problem with ANYONE spending $180 on a pair of shoes.

    And instead of trolling had you read my actual comments, I said specifically I have never and would never spend that money on MYSELF for such a pair of shoes, I hate spending more than $75 on a pair and Ill only spend that on something I can wear everyday to get the most use out of it.

    However this was about using Tzedkah Money for $180 pair of shoes, If someone has the money and wishes to waste his own money that he earned it on such a pair, its one thing however its quite another if they are using Tzadekah to pay for it

    #956028

    However this was about using Tzedkah Money for $180 pair of shoes

    Actually, it was originally about any Shabbos shoes, and I made a side point that $100 is not always excessive, and I mentioned $180 shoes as an extreme example. If we can agree that $60 for a pair of solid kids’ shoes, partially subsidized by tzeddakah money, and partially by store discount, so that a child doesn’t have to feel like a nebach, then we’ve gotten somewhere

    #956029
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    I’ve bought Bostonians (which are the same as Florshiems)

    Is that your opinion, or are they literally the same shoes?

    They are owned by the same company and make the same products. However, I am not a shoe expert, so I can’t be certain that they are exactly the same. I have worn both and found no differences.

    I don’t buy them, but people whose feet ache do buy them and it’s not wasteful.

    I agree. That was my third point earlier.

    #956030

    I think I’ll try Bostonians next time. Thanks for the tip.

    #956031
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Zdad,

    So there you go making this into a thread about someone buying $180 shoes with a voucher. Which did not happen.

    What the real point is why is everyone sticking their nose into someone else’s business.

    The gabbai tzedakah, entrusted with the funds and likely the person whose sweat and tears went into procurring the funds for the vouchers, felt it is appropriate as did the shoe store owner, who is likeley subsidizing a part of the cost. Where do you find the gall to butt in and make judgements about things you are clearly unqualified to judge?

    ??? ???, ???? ???–???.

    That applies not only to monetary issues.

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