Using pejoratives

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  • #618595

    Avi K
    Participant

    Is it proper to use offensive words to describe other religious or ethnic groups? Should Jews be more sensitive about this considering our history?

    #1188368

    akuperma
    Participant

    A perjorative is rude and vulgar. Bnei Torah do not use such language. As they are directed against those created in the image of Ha-Shem, I fail to see why being “Jewish” has anything to do with it.

    #1188369

    TheGoq
    Participant

    and yes schvartze is a pejorative.

    #1188370

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    It simply means “black”.

    #1188371

    TheGoq
    Participant

    DY please, its meant in a derogatory way and its use is racist and wrong.

    #1188372

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Whatever the original meaning might have been , the meaning has changed and while originally it was not an offensive term, It now has become one

    #1188373

    reuventree555
    Participant

    “Negro” also simply means “black.” However, I wouldn’t suggest you go call someone that term…

    #1188374

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “and yes schvartze is a pejorative.”

    I am an exclusively Yiddish speaker. As may be no suprpirse to you I also a support “BLack lives matter” Until now I have been chanting “shvartze leben zenen vichtig”

    is this pejorative?

    #1188375

    flatbusher
    Member

    My first reaction when I saw the title of this thread was, how many people reading it know what the word pejorative means without looking it up.

    Having said that, I don’t believe it is ever appropriate to use offensive words and I taught my children to have respect for everyone, regardless of what they hear. I don’t like them at all, even Goy, preferring non-Jew. One should also strive for lashon nekiah.

    #1188376

    huju
    Participant

    The Goq is right. “Schvartzer” (or “shvartzer”) has, regrettably, taken on a pejoritive meaning among Jews who speak primarily English. If you are an exclusively Yiddish speaker, like ubiquitin, the word can be used without its pejoritive sense. And, by the way, ubiquitin, you may speak in Yiddish, but you write – perhaps non-exclusively, in English.

    #1188377

    Avi K
    Participant

    Flatbusher, I heard about someone who found “Non-Jew” offensive because she did not want to be described according to what she is not. How about “Noahide”? That will really send people to their dictionaries.

    #1188378

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I think “Noachide” is usually only used for people who keep the 7 Mitzvos b’nei Noach.

    Would she have preferred “goy”? I think I remember hearing that Arafat found that term offensive.

    #1188379

    Meno
    Participant

    I don’t even know how to pronounce “Noahide”. Is the H silent? It would make sense that it is silent, since it is in the name Noah, but that makes it more difficult to pronounce.

    Maybe “Ben-Noach” would be better

    #1188380

    flatbusher
    Member

    Avi–your comment is what is wrong in America today (among other things). Just because one person may have been offended by a the term non-Jew doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with the term. Is there any sane person who thinks being called a non-Jew is offensive, in a world of rising anti-Semitism?

    #1188381

    akuperma
    Participant

    In English, “Schwartze” is definitely a perjorative. In English, the language of assimilated Jews, “black” is bad. Indeed, the reason words such as “Negro” (which is a latin root) or “colored” were used to refer to African Americans was that “black” was perjorative since it meant “evil.”

    In Yiddish, or “yeshivish” it isn’t clear. Yiddish has far fewer words than English, and there are no ways to say “Black” other than “Schvartz”. Any of the Americans eupemisms sound alien and foreign sounding (and some secular Yiddish texts tried to introduce the word “Negro” into Yiddish, without success). Persumably if you are refering to whites as “Veissers” there shouldn’t be problem using “black” in that context.

    #1188382

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I don’t think the word “negro” is offensive in Spanish.

    #1188383

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    “Telling me *you* cannot do something because of your religious beliefs is okay. Telling me that *I* cannot do something because of your religious beliefs is not okay.” -quote

    Avi K: IMHO calling someone a *Noachide* still imposes the Torah-view onto someone of a different religion.

    It can alienate someone else, especially when a lot of individuals have pride in their diverse beliefs. Who likes to be told that they are wrong or of another type?

    At first I felt that non-Jew was offensive, but I think it’s better than “goy.”

    After I read some research articles about non-X’ians and non-Muslims and didn’t take offense to being referred to a non-something because it was really a way of saying that I was not part of the group (which technically is accurate, and it doesn’t make me less human), I now prefer to say non-Jew.

    #1188384

    screwdriverdelight
    Participant

    Since the OP seems to have raised the question only regarding ethnic and religious groups, I take the liberty of using pejoratives for many of the posters on this thread: You guys are idiots.

    “Shvartze” is no more insulting than “black”; “Goy” than “Jew.” Granted, people could use certain tones of voice and contexts to turn a neutral word into an insult (including such words such as “tall” “black” and “doctors”), but no blame lies on people who use them.

    Here are some real-life quotes from the above idiots.

    Would she have preferred “goy”? I think I remember hearing that Arafat found that term offensive.

    Oh, Arafat is am etiquette master now? I assume he also found the term “Jew” offensive.

    . I don’t like them at all, even Goy, preferring non-Jew. One should also strive for lashon nekiah.

    Just because one person may have been offended by a the term non-Jew doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with the term. Is there any sane person who thinks being called a non-Jew is offensive, in a world of rising anti-Semitism?

    “Goy” was made into an insult by Jews who hate religious Jews (Sorry, I don’t use the senseless term “Self-hating Jew”). The word has been in use for centuries and won’t fall into disuse because “one person [or persons] may have been offended [or pretend to be offended] by a the term”.

    #1188385

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I never heard before that Goyim get offended by being called non-Jew. I would guess that it’s unusual and not something to be concerned about. I could be wrong but I don’t think they get insulted by Goy either as long as it’s not used in a bad way. The term “Shabbos Goy” is a very used term, and I have never heard of a goy who minded being called a “Shabbos Goy”.

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