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I wonder if those who get into their long winded 5 paragraph attacks realize that no one reads it except the attackee.
Btw, since my last post. I turned on L&S twice for about 30 seconds before shutting it. On both occasions I was not needed at the scene anymore.
No, I paid for it. I was not a volunteer at that time. Besides I cannot see how volunteering would work as an argument.
They have to prove that they were on call.
I know of members that got speeding and reckless driving tickets while responding to calls that we’re not dismissed.
I wonder if those who get into their long winded 5 paragraph attacks realize that no one reads it except the attackee.
Posted by Medium Thinker.
Although many people have limited attention spans, regrettably, not everything can be expressed in single sentences.
On Shabbos, do you listen to the entire kriyas hatorah or do you have a text message sent to you beforehand?
Parking tickets that are received while on call are easy to fight. speeding and reckless driving tend to be more difficult.
I prove with proper documentation that I was responding to a call.
Also if the times match up, I can have the organization handle the parking ticket for me.
However a moving violation, even with L&S you are not allowed to drive recklessly.
There are members that have points on their license only cuz a cop wanted to teach those jews with lights a lesson..
I would say that yes, if the member uses his lights to get someone moving when not in an emergency this might be an abuse.
However sirens, if it is just a small hunk with the siren then I dont think that this is called using the siren.
The phrase “reckless driving” is not being properly used here.
Reckless driving shall mean driving or using any motor vehicle, motorcycle or any other vehicle propelled by any power other than muscular power or any appliance or accessory thereof in a manner which unreasonably interferes with the free and proper use of
the public highway, or unreasonably endangers users of the public highway. Reckless driving is prohibited. Every person violating this provision shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.” [emphasis added]
Reckless Driving does not mean going 10 MPH over the limit. Reckless Driving is a crime. There is no “tzetel” that anyone can write you that will get you out of a criminal charge. It will require a trial and/or a plea bargain.
I understand that driving reckless is a crime and dangerous. I personally know the member involved. He did not drive reckless or swerve.
The officer that pulled him over kept on making anti Semitic statements and repeated more then once that he will put a stop to these Jewish cars with lights.
The member pleadeted with the officer to follow him to the scene (it was an MVA) or contact his dispatcher the offic refused.
The officer wrote 6 citations. Most we’re thrown out.
Isn’t it extremely rare for a Hatzalah member to get a moving violation, while on call, anywhere in New York City?
jackness,, where oh where are you? You fired off a bunch of diatribes which were answered and you haven’t been back?
Perhaps, like some other VAS members, you’re busy playing police officer at gas lines like the one at 14th Avenue and 38th Street in Borough Park.
I dont get it, you might one day be on the receiving end. Why talk down to someone that has volunteered to help you and your community in the event that a medical emergency comes up?
2scents, people set the tone for the reply they wish to receive. If you look back to the previous page, you will note where jackness (if there indeed is such a person and not someone using multiple screen names)first referred to me as Borough Park Nonsense and then said that if you want to criticize his organization (which I did not do) then you can die. (We are all still waiting for you to condemn his response.)
My questions to you:
1. Do you believe that VAS groups may be criticized?
2. Do you believe that there exists valid criticism of some VAS groups or some of their members?
3. Do you believe that VAS members are not subject to the laws of the state, city and federal government?
4. Do VAS groups have an internal disciplinary system (like the NYPD Internal Affairs Bureau) that investigates citizen complainst against their members?
5. In your VAS group, whichever it may be, how many members were expelled or suspended in the past ten years?
Borough Park Mensch – All I can tell you is that your points are just the tip of the iceberg.
Talk about abuse. I work near a couple of well known hospitals on the upper east side. A member of Hatzola, whom I think is a (male) nurse, takes advantage of his EMT plates to park in a NO PARKING area every day. Parking is hard is this neighborhood, and parking lots are expensive. If you take a job around here, this is the price you pay. He has a large HATZOLA parking placard in his window, his not on any call — what does the average pedestrian goy think?
BP Mench,
Answer to Question 1,2,3 and 4 is YES.
Number 5, I do not know the exact count, this is private information even members do not get briefed on this. however this happens often members get suspended and expelled all the time.
We have a very strong discipline and a lot of rules to which we must adhere.
Most of the members in our organization are serious and mentchliche people, not youngsters that want to feel important, we focus on Patient care and thats about it. We give away our personal time to transport patients to the facility that would serve the patient best, even if that means traveling long distance.
There will always be what to criticize and there always will be bad apples, however in the bigger picture we do a lot.
My point is, that you never know if you will one day be on the receiving end of Hatzoloh or not, each day a lot of people are and chances are that you or one of your family members will call us with an emergency. So why bash us? are we taking something away from you?
MonseyFan,
I think that that he has a DOH placard which lets him park at No Parking signs.
to 2cents: He may be allowed, but its an abuse of the privilege.
2scents,,
I was okay with everything you said until I got to your last paragraph where you wrote:
My point is, that you never know if you will one day be on the receiving end of Hatzoloh or not, each day a lot of people are and chances are that you or one of your family members will call us with an emergency. So why bash us? are we taking something away from you? [emphasis added]
Let’s be clear; the definition of “bash” is “to attack physically or verbally.” I have done neither. Perhaps you have mistakenly used it as a synonym for “criticize” in which case you have negated your agreement that it is okay to criticize VAS groups. Is that the case? Please clarify.
But to address the plain meaning of the words in your post, I am sorry, but you may be polite, but the essence of your post is the same as that of jackness, viz., Don’t criticize a VAS if you ever want to use them!
Pending your clarification, I disagree with this sentiment. No one is above criticism, not me, not you, not even the President of the United States. And if this bizarre notion is the policy of any VAS, I am shocked.
It disturbs me to read these ideas expressed by someone who claims to be a member of an organization that professes to be working because it is a mitzvah.
Borough Park Mensch -“Pending your clarification, I disagree with this sentiment. No one is above criticism, not me, not you, not even the President of the United States. And if this bizarre notion is the policy of any VAS, I am shocked.”
Don’t be so shocked. Like I posted before -this is the tip of the iceberg. I doubt you could guess, even in your wildest dreams, the rest of it.
BP Mench,
I dont know what your agenda is, however you are nit picking my post.
I answered on all of your questions yes and explained to you question number 5.
in other words, we do get disciplined for our actions, be it patient care, reckless driving or anything else, we get suspended as well.
We are under huge scrutiny, we know that. we get criticized for things we did not even do, or things that one irresponsible member does.
I have not been hired or gain anything by defending Haztoloh, however I can say this, Hatzoloh is a well organized and disciplined organization. Most of its volunteers are serious people.
The local police respect us,as they are aware that we are not just a bunch of guys with lights.
So yes, we are open for criticism just as any other organization is, but please dont bash us without knowing the facts, and especially if you got the ‘info’ over the internet by some anonymous poster with an agenda.
Health,
You previously stated that you were at one point an EMT and that you worked in the prehopital setting.
I do not know if you still do so or not. however it seems that you have an agenda here. As you have admitted that you do not really know whats going on, however you keep on stating that this is the “tip of the iceberg” and worse then your “wildest Dreams”.
Please get a life.
2scents -“however it seems that you have an agenda here.”
Everyone has agendas. Yours is this relentless defense of all the critical posts here. Mine is the truth.
“As you have admitted that you do not really know whats going on, however you keep on stating that this is the “tip of the iceberg” and worse then your “wildest Dreams”.”
Well to the extent of that I don’t know what goes on 24/7, but I know a lot more than you.
“Please get a life.”
I do have somewhat of a life – do you?
I feel that it is very worth joining Hatzalah just for all the parking priviliges (parking in NYC is a nightmare without the parking privilige placard) and driving privileges (gridlock is a big pain). Of course the main thing is the mitzvah.
I see some Chaveirim guys now have a parking placard in their windshield. Does this entitle them to parking in restricted zones? (Some also have lights and sirens.)
Health, TLKY, BPM – All you, sound like your trying to take revenge on your rejection to hatzolah.
real-brisker -“Health, TLKY, BPM – All you, sound like your trying to take revenge on your rejection to hatzolah.”
Maybe the posts sound like revenge, but who says it’s because of rejection? Try again – not even close.
Empty criticism such as “you will be shocked when you know what really goes on”, or “I know the truth”. is not real criticism and does not deserve any response.
Every person and ever organization should be open for critisim, however the criticizer must know what they are talking about.
real-brisker
Health, TLKY, BPM – All you, sound like your trying to take revenge on your rejection to hatzolah.
This is completely false. I have never applied to any volunteer ambulance service. I volunteer my time doing pro bono legal work.
Why you would say this speaks more about you than anything else as it sends the message that the only motivation someone could possibly have for criticizing a VAS would be revenge for being rejected. Are you really in that much denial? Could it possibly be that there are [gasp!] valid criticisms regardless of some VAS companies and members?
2scents, now you’re showing me the same problem as real-brisker above. I have no “agenda” hidden or otherwise. I live in a neighborhood and a state where multiple VAS organizations operate. I contribute money to at least one of them.
Although I have given you the courtesy of looking up the word “bash” for you in the dictionary, you continue to misuse it. Is this intentional?
Again, if you are so open to criticism, what is your organization doing about people who park illegally when they are not on call?
FYI, take a look at the corner of 50th Street and 16th Avenue in Borough Park where there is a No Standing zone. With the VAS cars parked there every day, you might think you are at the scene of a mass casualty. Actually, the drivers are shopping at Bochner’s grocery.
Also, what is your organization doing about people who create their own placards (i.e. not the NYC DOT) one and put them in their windshields?
Herr Himmel, In Borough Park, there are so many phony placards around, it’s sometimes hard to tell the real ones. LOL. “BSSP” is another big user of these.
BPM: I’ve always wondered what the purpose of that No Standing zone on 50 and 16 was for. It says it is for “NYP”. Any idea (and why over there)?
2scents -“Empty criticism such as “you will be shocked when you know what really goes on”, or “I know the truth”. is not real criticism and does not deserve any response.”
1. So why did you respond?
2. It actually wasn’t criticism to the public at large – I actually was talking to s/o here – namely BPM.
Health – Thanks for agreeing to my point. You have some side intention why you are taking revenge.
BPM – Aha, so you new you weren’t going to get accepted even before applying?
BPM,
I really hate going into such silly arguments, I called it bash since there wasnt much substance to your criticism.
I do not know what is going on in BP or the exact legality of parking at a no parking when not on call.
However in our organization I know of at least one incident in which a member has had his placard taken away because he used it to park each day at a water hydrant. He was warned that parking there is at his own risk and if he wants to park there he should remove the placard from the window since it puts the organization in a bad light.
Just this Friday as I went shopping, I saw a fire chief parking his car at a No Parking and went shopping. I would never really notice something like that, however it seems that other Emergency responders take advantage of the fact that they will not get ticketed. (and in one way free up another legal parking spot).
I am sorry if I hit a wrong nerve, you jumped on one word that I used, however the you dismissed the content. Therefore I will repeat it, Yes we are scrutinized all the time, we constantly get disciplined and questioned for everything we did. We are a serious organization with serious and mentchliche people.
I was not hired or gain anything by defending Hatzolah, I just get bothered when people state things that are not accurate.
Posted by real-brisker
BPM – Aha, so you new [sic] you weren’t going to get accepted even before applying?
Keep making a fool of yourself! Yes, with my two university degrees I could never make it through a training program that apparently someone semi-literate like you had no problems with. I wonder how I passed the New York Bar Exam back in the days when 75% failed.
Again, people, this is not about me nor is it about Health or any other poster.
The topic is “VAS Plates On A Non-Emergency Vehicle.”
If the only response you have to criticism of a VAS organization is to attack the individual who made the criticism, a person whom you do not even know, perhaps you should refrain from posting anything and then see a rav for some mussar.
“I do not know what is going on in BP or the exact legality of parking at a no parking when not on call.”
How do you deal with this issue for yourself, when not on call, as far as parking in a No Parking area?
“However in our organization I know of at least one incident in which a member has had his placard taken away because he used it to park each day at a water hydrant. He was warned that parking there is at his own risk and if he wants to park there he should remove the placard from the window since it puts the organization in a bad light.”
Why is the discipline limited to illegally parking by a fire hydrant? Why isn’t the same discipline metered out when someone parks in a No Parking area, when not on call? (There appears to be a lot of that occurring.)
“Just this Friday as I went shopping, I saw a fire chief parking his car at a No Parking and went shopping. I would never really notice something like that, however it seems that other Emergency responders take advantage of the fact that they will not get ticketed. (and in one way free up another legal parking spot).”
Two wrongs don’t make a right. They’re doing wrong doesn’t legitimize it being done here.
“I feel that it is very worth joining Hatzalah just for all the parking priviliges (parking in NYC is a nightmare without the parking privilige placard) and driving privileges (gridlock is a big pain). Of course the main thing is the mitzvah.”
Seriously?
BPM – You need more qualifications to get accepted to hatzolah than just passing a the EMT test.
BPM – BTW, I am not part of hatzolah. Nor do I have any affiliation with them.
BPM,
Initially I was under the impression that you have legitimate criticism against hatzoah, therefore I tried to answer them. I have responded to your questions only to have misused the word bashing which got you worked up.
Unless you don’t ask any serious questions I will not reply anymore.
real-brisker -“BPM – BTW, I am not part of hatzolah. Nor do I have any affiliation with them.”
So why are you defending them? And even more so – Why are you lying in their defense? Here is the outright lie:
“BPM – You need more qualifications to get accepted to hatzolah than just passing a the EMT test.”
What more qualifications do you need?
If you would have wrote – you need more that being an EMT to join -this is probably true. You need connections and/or to be part of their clic to join.
What more qualifications do you need?
You need to be a “macher” to join. They don’t strictly accept based on qualifications. You need to have connections. (Like you said.)
I do not think that this is true.
The more people you know, the less chances is that they will accept you, they dont like it when people get in because they are a macher, since its a threat to their authority and discipline.
Health,
Please be kind enough to point out where he was lying.
I will try to answer as to why he is defending them, since they are an organization with the objective of serving the community and the individual in a time of need. so when some poster decides to ridicule the organization with a bunch of non sense, he stands up against that poster.
or, maybe he or someone he knows was on the receiving end of the organization and saw first hand how they operate, therefore he found it his business to stand up against them.
Now I will ask you the question you asked him, why are you standing up AGAINST Hatzoloh?
Health – You need to be someone that will fit their standards. They dont just take every shmoger.
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