January 8, 2012 4:54 am at 4:54 am #842293
To always runs: I feel your pain because I have been there, done that. I grew up in an eerily similar siutation. My father was a good person, but he was mentally ill with severe depression and an explosive temper. My mom tried to make it work, but this ultimately did not work to anybody’s benefit. She had her own problems and the situation took a toll on her health/webllbeing as well. This left us kids as virtual orphans with 2 living parents, living in a war zone. Not at all a good situation. The divorce was a relief for all concerned and gave us kids a chance to be healthy and whole, with a better relationship with both parents.
The Rabbonim that my parents asked for guidance/direction were woefully unequipped to deal with the complexities involved in such a situation, impacting on hashkafa, mental health, shalom bayis, financial, chinuch,etc. Lots of layers of issues to be worked through, requires experienced help (though of course Rabbonim should be consulted for specific halachic/hashkafic guidance). Interestingly, my mom reached out for help at one point early on, and was told by a mental health expert on abuse who labeled the behavior and told my mom that the situation was irrevocably broken. She did not feel strong enough to end things and the situation continued for more than 10 years beyond that. Yes, as their child, I wish they had divorced much earlier. It took a lot of therapy as an adult to recover, get perspective on my early years and get the tools necessary to build a healthy marriage and family, learn parenting skills, etc. B”H my siblings and I are all now middle-aged, and have been largely successful in this.
Please, please, please call Shalom Task Force, as they are experts on this type of situation and can guide/direct you to build yourself up and do what is necessary to improve this situation, either together or apart. Trust me, your children will thank you till 120!January 8, 2012 5:16 am at 5:16 am #842296
Dear Confused, Abused Mother,
Depending where you live, there is much help that can be obtained for women who experience patterns of emotional, physical, and psychological abuse. You’re not alone. While I understand the shame and the fear that you experience, realize that you’re not going to be able to change your husband who appears to have serious issues with power and control (to say the least) and appears to be a very troubled person. You have an obligation to protect yourself and your children. You can call anonymously a form of child protective service to report child abuse or call the police. A shelter may end up being the safest place for you and your children. However, getting to a point of implementing such a step may be very frightening. Therefore, please reach out quietly and anonymously to the Shalom Task Force in New York or to any Jewish Family Service in your area. I believe that most have specific people who can help you.
You can reach the Shalom Task Force at:
888 883 2323 (718 337 3700)
I’m a professional clinical social worker who specializes in helping people in similar situations. I would love to help you. Please have the YWN moderators email me and we can hopefully get in touch that way.
A Caring ClinicianJanuary 8, 2012 5:17 am at 5:17 am #842297
I’m horrified to read the things he’s done. He has a personality disorder if he’s so controlling he won’t “let” you take Zoloft!! Have you called Shalom Task Force yet? Please…January 8, 2012 5:55 am at 5:55 am #842298
Always running, I understand that it is hard for you to take this step and you have convinced yourself or he has convinced you that there is no help for you out there. Whether there is or not, is the second step that you have to deal with. The first step is keeping your kids safe and that is how do you remove them from harm. The easiest way is to remove your husband from the home. Speak to Sholom Task Force or go directly to the cops or court. Whatever you choose to do, come here for the support you need and we will give it to you. No matter how much you believe you are alone you aren’t. WE are here for you to listen and to support. You also have your doctors so don’t discount them.
Always, you brought these children into this world, let me reword that, you BOTH brought these children into this world and you are BOTH responsible and obligated to keep them safe even if that means keeping them safe from yourselves or each other. Your needs or your spouse’s needs are NOT more important nor even as important as keeping your children safe and healthy. THEY come first. Absolutely and without a doubt their safety and security comes first, not your spouse’s happiness nor his needs. I want to make that perfectly clear. YOUR children’s health and safety and yours comes before making life comfortable for your spouse.
It does not matter that his illness is now causing him to be nice to them and there is a calmness. You are all waiting for the axe to fall and the next explosion to happen. What if it happens when you are NOT at home and he starts swinging the baby around like a rag doll like that unfortunate chassidishe man in E”Y who killed his baby? You cannot predict what his angry outbursts or his depression will cause him to do to the children because he has no boundaries. He does not treat them with love and compassion and he cannot be trusted. HE is the cancer in the home and HE must be removed because he is causing too much harm and he can “kill”. You should have had your daughter seen by a medical professional if her head was slammed. She could have a concussion and that could be serious for a child. He could have cracked her skull open or caused brain damage, blindness or deafness. This was a warning for you. Next time you and your children might not be so lucky. Can you afford to wait? You are trying to protect him from himself, if he c”v causes a death in the family, or a hospitalization he will go to jail, you might also but one thing is for sure you will lose your children and they will lose both their parents.
Always, think about this, think about what I am saying. You are married to an abusive spouse who is not following Torah guidelines for a frum marriage. No, this is NOT what a frum marriage is supposed to be like. AND you are a mother of young frum children. Where are your obligations? Who needs your protection most? Your husband has choices here and your children don’t. HE can choose to go for therapy. Your children cannot do anything for themselves except to expect their mother to protect them. Either make the appropriate call to protect your children from a man who refuses to do what is right according to the Torah or I pray that one of the children have the s’yata d’shmaya to call the police themselves.January 8, 2012 6:30 am at 6:30 am #842299
Aries, I don’t get what u r incinuating as “the appropriate call” ? Do u mean shalom task force? Yes of course I just called 10 mins ago but these blessed ppl only work during selected short business hrs on certain days of the week, as explained on their answering machine…..???? I was very surprised and disappointed
Or do u mean I should call someone else?
I actually got a phone number for a mimcha in shalom bayis but he didn’t pick up.ill call tommorrow. I am seriously fed up and I want my kids to have a good life.
I blame myself largely for the entire thing because everyone knows that the mothers moods set the tone of the home. If I was fair to him or more even tempered he n
ever do this. I pushed him over the edge by being mad and angry at him.January 8, 2012 6:33 am at 6:33 am #842300
my husband never pphysically abused me either..
he was tough on the kids if he ‘decided’ that they did somthing wrong they would get it with a belt after he did it twice I ‘assered’ him from touching ‘my’ children with a belt.. to the point where he ignores them totally and does not reprimand at all cuz I dont let him do it his way!
But he sure knows how to verbally abuse, to the point where they now do not go to shul with him, dont discuss anything with him, he wont drive them anywhere cus he says he’s not car service-even if its on the way to where he is going anyway..
always angry at everything! even when there is nothing to be angry at, he finds what to be angry at and scream so the entire block hears!
I could hear him yelling down the block when I am coming home from work or anywhere else, especially bein hazmanim when the boys are home. they dont answer back they just ignore and walk out. They sleep till late daven late and them make shabos seuda on ther own later.
Basically I made up my mind to have my own life.. I got a job. I cook ,take care of my children and there needs..go and come as I wish. Dont answer to anyone and I dont argue I stop the answering or having a conversation when I see I am gettig nowhere with the conversation. I am the one to takecare of everything in the house including registering boys in yeshiva k’tana and yeshiva g’dola. who knows what they think.. maybe there is no father…? when i speakto rosh yeshiva they askd me where is the father? i said he was out of town for business which he goes sometimes and thats when quiet reigns.. shabos is peaceful kids are home and we have nice meals.
the older kids grew wings, and when the going gets tough the tough get going.. they just leave and come home when they are sure the battle grounds are quiet..I also aim for them to go to a sleepaway yeshiva so when they do come home they are guests and its somewhat less arguing but usually not for long and the barrage of hateful critcism starts..
my husband realizes that I am disgusted with him and he asks me ‘how can I gain back your caring and trust?’ I answer him.. When he will truly love MY children..
but I am not sure when that will happen because as soon as I say that he starts defending himself that he really knows what he is doing so I tell him to go to any rov ar rebbe and ask them which system is the correct one mine or his.. he doesnt answer me and never went.. so the time passes and the kids are getting older and I give them whatever I can and kiss them and keep reminding my husband that kids need a mother and a FATHER!January 8, 2012 6:34 am at 6:34 am #842301
Let me just remind you.. take that B-complex!January 8, 2012 7:07 am at 7:07 am #842302
The first question here is does he even acknowledge that there is a problem? Does he want to change?
And if he is no good-which may be the case, then it is even more so that you need to have a psychological advantage over him. He needs to know that there are askanim involved, you are not alone and vulnerable, you can and will stand up and fight for yourself. Your kids need to be out of the emotional and physical reach of your husband ASAP, and askanim should make therapists available to them and to you to speak to whenever they need.
It is important for you to realize that your husband is an insecure, person. Faulting you and not being able to find anything to compliment you for reflects poorly on him not on you.
Also, take pictures of the bruises and record a conversation with your daughter describing what happened. You should also record one of his outbursts. In many states this is legal and admissible in court.January 8, 2012 7:19 am at 7:19 am #842303
Always: I’ve been watching your posts for a while and I smelled something fishy… I really have been worried about you.Please call Sparks, its an organization that hhelps women with post partum depression. They will guide you in the right direction! PLEASE CALL!!January 8, 2012 7:30 am at 7:30 am #842304
ED IT ORParticipant
hi, you are definitely being abused and by feeling guilty you realize this,
having never been in ur situation I can’t give advice but calling the cops sounds like a start…
I really feel for you and will definitely say some tehillim for you,
also although the words being thrown around above sound scary (shelter, abusive, taskforce etc) you should take the plunge and speak to ANY daas Torah, explain the circumstances as you have written it above and I am %200 sure it will be a good start in repairing YOUR LIFE, YOUR KIDS LIFES AND UR HUSBANDS LIFE
davening for you, thinking about your situation, FEELING FOR YOUJanuary 8, 2012 7:32 am at 7:32 am #842305
Mom12, I hear you. I also can relate where you had said that when you have to reprimand your husband in his crooked ways then he acts like “then you run the whole show” .
But more than just running the show, do u know what bothers me? It’s the burial of the dream that we could really be happy, whole and healthy together. What kind of a life is a life without that enjoyed closeness and sharing when I have to live separate lives while living under the same roof?January 8, 2012 7:35 am at 7:35 am #842306
Also, all his stressful situations may be rooted in a deficiency in knowing how to deal with people and situations properly, so by getting him to a therapist you may be killing 2 birds with one stone.January 8, 2012 7:46 am at 7:46 am #842307
scissors, my heart breaks for you. I know pretty well what you are going through. My husband is a wonderful great sweet guy. But when he explodes, he is capable of hurting the children physically. When this happens i feel sick. He also feels bad, but he loses control and does this. Afterwards he tries to be extra nice to them to make it up to them. He doesn’t believe in therapy either. He also doesnt believe in medicine, so I understand what you mean when you say your husb doesnt want you to take zoloft. I can’t imagine he should be against vitamins, though and it surely cant hurt to take vitamin b.January 8, 2012 8:59 am at 8:59 am #842308
“I blame myself…if I was fair to him or more even tempered…”
The first step is to recognize that this situation cannot stay the way it is, and it will not change until you do something about it.
That something is not to be more even tempered. Yes, that can reduce tension, but IT WILL NOT ENSURE that he will not “attack”.
You’re assuming your husband’s response had some logic to it;like, you provoked on some level, and so he responded. That IS NOT what happened. I don’t have to be there to see that.
My husband threatened to drive extra fast on an icy road on an elevated narrow roadway (mountain) when I told him I was scared because of the driving conditions and asked him to slow down. He was enraged that I had the nerve to ask him to slow down. There IS NO logic to abuse. Their response to their PERCEPTION of insult or threat is unpredictable.
The fact that he has redeeming qualities does not mean he’s a good husband for you or good father for your children. The most important thing he can offer you and your children is security (not just financial, but safety). He has demonstrated that at this time he is incapable of offering that to you. His outbursts are unpredictable.
You need information. I don’t blame you for being terrified of even thinking of dissolving this marriage. You don’t know where to go or how to support yourself. But, that doesn’t mean that you’ll be stuck. The more information you have the less you’ll fear considering other choices. Frum shelters exist and are designed to be safe for woman and children. Supportive services are provided to help women become grounded.
It sounds like you unequivocally believed your husband harmed your daughter and then allowed yourself to question it/who’s fault was it. It is not foolhardy to “evacuate”your children if he exposed them to harm.
Now is not the time to assess who’s responsibility it was and what you can do differently. Your primary job is to keep your children safe.
I, too, would recommend that you keep trying to reach shalom task force. Ask if you should report it to the police (I think you must, but consult with them).January 8, 2012 11:31 am at 11:31 am #842309
Always: very distressed to hear of your family strife. So many of your usual posts are full of animation and a strong creative spirit, it is really upsetting to hear of your family’s situation.
You have to get help and advice fast. The CR is useful for contact details and a sense of shared support as you let of steam and frustration but it is after all simply an internet forum. Go out in the real world and help yourself, you deserve it .
Leaving a marriage is very hard to do, but it is even harder late in life to undo longerm damage to oneself, let alone one’s children. I wish you strength from the bottom of my heart.January 8, 2012 11:50 am at 11:50 am #842310
I dont know if the mods will allow it, but my mother is an expert in these issues, having helped fix or ending a marriage that needed doing so. shes a well known kalah teacher and is on several sholom bayis orgs., and has worked with massive rabbanim. she’ll try to help you as mch as possible. please contact the mods or editor if youre intersted.January 8, 2012 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #842311
Ohel has a unit for domestic Violence called Tikvah
I hope the mods let me post the address and number
The Marvin Kaylie Tikvah Center at OHEL
2925A Kings Highway
Brooklyn NY 11229-1805
718-382-0051 FaxJanuary 8, 2012 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #842312
Don’t call the cops yet. I don’t know where you live, but in most states they will be required by law to arrest your husband. Then they will release him, and you will be left with a husband that is even angrier than before.January 8, 2012 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #842313
Scissors: At this point, the only way for you to be “happy, healthy, and whole” with someone is if either your husband gets therapy or you get out of this marriage and find a new one someday. If you try and fix something this broken on your own, everyone gets hurt.
And not to hijack this thread, but why are you still married mom12?January 8, 2012 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #842314
Always Runs: It’s time to live up to your name and RUN to protect yourself and children. The longer you sit there throwing your hands up in despair and crying helplessness, is the longer that you and your children will remain in harms way. You might have some fond memories and wishes for your dear pitbull (aka husband) but your children will HATE your husband for his actions and hate YOU even more for PERMITTING him to harm them without protecting them. Keeping children in such a situation is YOUR CHOICE. Your kids will NEVER forgive you. Plus, the scars of living in such a family will remain with them forever. This will be your legacy. File a police report, even if you choose to not press charges, (aka arrest).
Ender: Your words are not factual and in this case very irresponsible.January 8, 2012 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #842315
Ender, always runs, I must respectfully disagree. The children are being harmed, and you have a moral and legal responsibility to protect them. If the abuse comes to the attention of anyone else, ie if someone notices the bruises and asks a few questions, you will also be in trouble. While your husband would be arrested, you can expect the children, all of them, to be removed from your custody. The onus would then be on you to prove your innocence. If anyone suffers serious harm (as if bruises and lumps on the head are not serious enough!) you could be held criminally liable. Please take action to protect your children.January 8, 2012 2:28 pm at 2:28 pm #842316
“I pushed him over the edge by being mad and angry at him.”
You were mad and angry at him for abusing the kids, right? But that’s a normal response to someone abusing your kids!!
Don’t blame the victim (yourself)… at this point you are the only one who can protect your children. Do it for both them and yourself…January 8, 2012 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #842317
I wonder if one way to ‘wake him up’ might be suggesting that his behavioral changes could be cv”s related to a brain tumor. Maybe you could get him into a doctor that way without him ‘taking the blame’ (i.e. “it’s not my fault I have a __”). The doctor would be required to report what would eventually come out about his behavior toward his family. I haven’t completely thought that through so I don’t know how logical it is…January 8, 2012 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #842318
Always, everyone knows that the FATHER sets the tone of the house and it says so in the Torah. It is very well understood that a mother can get truly overwhelmed by all the children fighting and crying and pushing and pulling at her, but it is the father who walks in from work who has NOT been subjected to this all day, who walks in with the rachmonus and love for his children and family, as Hashem the father has rachomonus and love for HIS children and family.
Always, I hear you loud and clear, we all do. What YOU don’t hear is that you are spouting typical and standard words and phrases that any and all victims of abuse would and do say. Unfortunately, your mind has been trained to blame yourself and NOT the abuser. YOU are not at fault here, YOU and your children are the victims!!! YOU are NOT responsible for what is going on. That is HIS illness and HIS sickness which is NOT depression, it is control and abuse, having its affect on you. It is his words which have been seriously and convincingly planted in YOUR brain to believe and accept blame for everything that goes wrong. It is his brainwashing that YOU deserve what is happening because YOU brought in upon yourself. As a friend of mine says this is “STINKING THINKING” and it has not only locked you in a rotten marriage of abuse, it allowed you to keep bringing babies into it, and convinced you that no one cares enough about you to help you. HE IS LYING TO YOU!!! People DO care and Hashem will send you shelichim to help you out of this mess.
I myself have gotten involved in a case like yours, without the physical abuse but with sexual abuse, on the wife, emotional and verbal abuse on the kids, and we are just about heading into court next week if we don’t have an out of court settlement. I didn’t know this client. Somehow Hashem put us together. Hashem will send shelichim to you as well, just as he did to her. She also thought there was no out for her. She thought that death was her only answer. Hers not even his. So please, please don’t let his illness cause you all this “Stinkin thinkin”. Stop worrying about where you will go and what will happen to him. He is an adult and he has the option of getting help. Get him out of the house. That is the first step. Let HIM worry about where he is going to go if he is not going to seek help. BTW, if he violates the Order of Protection, you call the cops and have him arrested. This is a very good thing because then it is moved out of family court and into Criminal Court. A man faced with family court might NOT feel the need to comply and go get the therapy he needs. However, once the case is in criminal court, he is dealing with a whole different ball game and the reality of the situation hits him in the face.
I can’t predict whether or not he can be cured and life with him can be better. I can’t tell you if the marriage can survive or not. You both need to go into therapy and counseling to figure it all out and make the best decisions for yourself and your children. But I CAN point out to you that YOU and YOUR children do NOT deserve this HELL and it has nothing to do with anything YOU or your children are doing.January 8, 2012 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #842319
just checked…shalom task force hotline is on from 9:00 am sunday…call now!January 8, 2012 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #842320
Always- the fact that you blame yourself for your husband’s violence is crazy, and very typical of abused people to do that.January 8, 2012 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #842321
Only in cheap Jewish novels do couples miraculously change and live happily ever after. He has no reason to change because you are showing him that you excuse his behaviors and will give him free reign to do as he pleases to your children. I’m starting to realize the dangers of Jewish magazine serials which distort reality. You can’t live in la-la land.January 8, 2012 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #842322
always, I hope you have made that first call. I am sure it is hard, but we are here to support.January 8, 2012 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #842323
Always – GET OUT FAST WITH YOUR KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He IS an abuser! It’s typical for an abuser to be “sweet” at times. That is not his real personality. The abuser part is his real personality.
Don’t worry about ruining his life. He’s already ruining yours and your children’s lives. The way you speak, you sound like a typical victim of an abuser. Trying to make excuses for him. STOP!!!
YOU DESERVE BETTER!!! You must go to the police! A lot of people here are telling you to go to a Rav. The only problem I have with that is that many times a Rav will side with the man. (there have been many such stories) Yes I’m sure many Rabbonim will truly listen to you and do the right thing but you have to be careful. Do you have any family or friends you can confide in? Another good piece of advice I see here is to call the Shalom Task Force.
PLEASE TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND YOUR CHILDREN! KEEP IN TOUCH WITH US. WE CARE A LOT.January 8, 2012 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #842324
I hate to say but I agree with Gefen, DO NOT SPEAK TO A RAV..Many WILL side with the father.
Please go to Tikvah or Shalom Task Force . These are run under proper auspices and according to HalachaJanuary 8, 2012 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #842325
“DO NOT SPEAK TO A RAV.”
Whoa-That needs some tweaking.
A respected and experienced rov can be your greatest asset, however choose your rov wisely, because the wrong rov can end up being a resource for your husband and a nightmare for you. Many, many rabbonim get their position because they know how to learn and are strong personalities, and people are enamored by them, but in truth they may lack sensitivity, judgement and sometimes character. proceed with caution, do your research,look before you leap.
If you tell us which area you live in or next to, we can suggest some rabbonim that are qualified for this kind of situation.January 8, 2012 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #842327
I cannot agree with the advice to tell the husband that maybe he has a brain tumor and should see a doctor. Can you imagine the rage of an already abusive man, to be told maybe he has a mental illness caused by a physical imperfection? Such a man doesn’t want to be given an “out,” because he will never believe there is ANYTHING wrong with his behavior l’chatchilah. I would be interested in what the dynamic between HIS parents is like.January 8, 2012 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #842328
Always – I just realized that you already answered my question about having family to contact. Sorry, I didn’t see that before. I also see that someone told you they can be contacted if you ask the mods. This person is apparently a professional who can offer guidance. But I just want to say that if you want to contact me for support (no i’m not a professional – just someone who cares), you can ask the mods for my info as well. Perhaps others here might also be willing to be contacted. You need a group of friends. We at the CR are here for you.
PLEASE KEEP US POSTEDJanuary 8, 2012 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #842329
I did not say there is not a time to call the cops, Of course there is. All I am saying is that it is not a step to be taken unless you are sure you want to live with the consequences. There are other short term solutions such as calling Shalom or even moving out temporarily that do not carry the permanent ramifications calling the cops does.January 8, 2012 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #842330
I grew up with a tyrannical father he was ill tempered towards all his children but to me especially he couldn’t handle the fact that i was born with several physical and mental shortcomings the physical scars only last a short time but the emotional scars are still with me, he blamed me for ruining his logical life he would say awful things to me and put me down daily, he was a rebbe and i was in his class one year one day he called on me and i stumbled over a letter and he said look he doesnt even know the aleph bais, this was a typical thing for him to do not always in public but sometimes yes in front of my peers it was most hurtful.
At my sisters vort i asked him to introduce me to the chosson and he said oh he doesnt need to meet me very derisively this was my whole life a lifetime of emotional gehennom.
I cant tell you what to do but you know how he really is and you know what can happen if you choose to stay you were brave to post this continue to be brave and do what is best for the children.January 8, 2012 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #842331
I cant really add much to what has been already said, but please call Shalom Task Force again. Dont let your resolve from last night fade away.
DO NOT blame yourself. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.
IGNORE every post saying “I think your husband has this problem” or ” Your biggest problem is this..”
Call STF and get professional help. Go see a doctor/psychiatrist who can prescribe medication IF deemed necessary for your PPD. You should also seek out a psychologist to help you overcome the PPD.
BUT most important of all, call STF and let them help you. (Unfortunately) They have a lot of experience with these issues.
My heart goes out to you. May Hashem help you survive this terrible ordeal intact.January 8, 2012 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #842332
What traits do you use to determine if a rabbi is good for the situation or not? What do you look for and how do you make the determination?January 8, 2012 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #842333
please excuse my lack of grammar etc., I’m typing on a tablet
firstly, you are not to blame. do not blame yourself. you are a victim, your kids are victims. you are at a very important crossroad. I’m sure it is quite scary. the decision you make will have an impact on everyone. I can see from your posts that you know what the right move is. I also know that “right” doesn’t make it any easier. we are here for you in the CR. I wish you the best of luck and all the strength and courage in the world. I can arrange for you to speak with a mental health professional, pro bono, if you wish. If you do, I’m sure one of the kind mods will help me pass the info to you
BE SAFE!!!January 8, 2012 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm #842334
ARWSF – My first and only recommendation is to get professional help. Shalom Task Force is a fine option, although they aren’t the only professionals out there. I know you are scared, but your situation needs intervention. Please do Not listen to any advice posted here or anywhere else, besides to seek professional help!
Even if the posters here are mental health professionals -you need s/o with hands on to deal with this.
I know what’s going through your mind -“this is the end of my life, my marriage, etc.” This is most likely Not the case. Early intervention can stop & fix the situation. Of course there are no guarantees, but this is what you must do for #1 your kids & #2 yourself. Getting the help your family needs Cannot & Will not make the situation worse!January 8, 2012 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #842335
always runs with scissors fast –
I’m just a young single guy, but I will candidly tell you that I am not at all ignorant in these matters. Here is my advice:
1) No matter what you decide your course of action will be, do not let it go, thinking “it’s my fault in a big way, I just have to change, and it will all get better.” Of course you are correct that your PPD probably has something to do with it, but you know in your heart that he has a problem. And I tell you that problem will not go away if the status quo remains.
2) Does he have a rav who is trustworthy that he would listen to without question? If yes, call him right away. Tell him everything and do not be afraid to divulge anything. Anything at all that could possibly be relevant, even though it puts your husband in a bad light. Don’t talk with your head, talk with your heart. Tell him you need him to demand that your husband seek professional help immediately. And say that of course, you are willing to seek help for yourself too. But tell him that this is necessary or else you are out.
3) If your husband does not have someone like this, then tell him yourself. If you feel a confrontation is too risky (he may lose his temper, you may say the wrong thing etc.) then write a note. Tell him that you need him, for the sake of the family, to seek professional help. Tell him you will make the appointment and everything, and be amicable, supportive, and empathetic, but be firm. I am sure you can find the right words.
4) If all this fails, I would consider finding some sort of shelter and leaving. I know that this is a last resort for you, and perhaps to an extent unthinkable, which is why I left it for last.
One thing. I will just reiterate what I wrote in the beginning. You cannot let this go. Baruch Hashem you are still young and have a whole life ahead of you, and the same goes for your kids. If you try to just continue to live in the environment you speak of and not take significant action I can tell you with almost certainty that you will have great regrets down the road. This way, as tough and terribly difficult as it may be, you will always know that you did all you could, and chances are your life in general will improve as well.
Hatzlacha.January 8, 2012 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #842336
mom12 – can you explain more about this b 12? Is it a vitamin ? can it be taken if I already take a multi vitamin ? What does it do exactly?
thanksJanuary 8, 2012 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #842337
sushe-I’m not sure if your question is sincere or sarcastic but either way there’s no exact science, usually it would have to be by word of mouth from people-more than 1 or 2-with first hand experience dealing with that rov-not from fans who are gushing about him but have never actually worked with him on sensitive situations.
I just had a situation where a rov was rodef me,falsely quoting a gadol against me, he got a second rov involved who later admitted then he went along lishem shamayim without doing any factual research. I contacted rabbonim who knew the story well and who quickly approached the gadol who confirmed that I was in fact the victim in this case. The 2nd rov backed down and apologized admitting his naivete, but much damage was done in the interim and the point remains that one must choose his rov carefully. I know of many stories where a rov either sided with an abusive husband or gave the wife foolish and irresponsible advice. Choose a rov carefully is all I and other posters are saying.January 8, 2012 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #842338
First of all.. GET OUT OF THERE! With the children of course.
I would suggest going to family, like your parents or siblings.
I am shocked… Shouting can happen sometimes, but afterwards one apologizes – and physical violence is completely out of the question. Your husband has crossed all lines, you have to get away from him before he causes more serious and permanent harm to you or your children. They are already severely damaged, and so are you – physically not permanently (I hope), but mentally you are all severely hurt and you will need a lot of time and help to build a new life.
But the first and foremost priority must be that you GET AWAY FROM HIM. Nobody benefits from you staying with him.January 8, 2012 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #842339
People, people, people…Thank you.
Although its very overwhelming to have to read 89 posts, to date, its also chizuk to feel supported. However, you must understand that I am part of the problem. And that my husband is also a victim. He is a victim of his “mental illness” called undiagnosed/untreated Depression, leading to these behaviors. And I have also been a nasty person in the home towards him and the children. So, I have sometimes toyed with the idea of giving my children to a happy healthy family seeing as I am too weak, unskilled and lost. Oh did i mention depressed and hopeless?
But I would never, I am in fact capable and happy to rear my dears, this is my tachlis in this gilgul. Being a “new comer” to a chassidish village was not easy, nor is it ever going to be easy to live as a war survivor with not one family member in life to share the joys and sorrows. Bearing the baggage of my painful past, lost friends and family, and the present burden of living with a control freak in poverty are some of my obstacles.
AND having been brought up by a very violent woman, my own mother, who use to beat us, verbally abuse all of us, and demonstrate the power of intimidation through violence and violence against my father etc. I BELIEVE that is why I was attracted to a controlling husband.
After all, I DID CHOoSE HIM! It was my stupid judgment.
I must reiterate HE IS NOT VIOLENT TOWARDS ME or even walls or objects (i have done that) he just lost his temper at our child.
And of course its not ok. But it doesnt make him a rasha. Or ok maybe it does?
ARe you posters telling me that not one of you has ever lashed out and struck someone in your immediate family, under the category of what would be called ABUSE by the authorities? But could be called “a mistake” by ordinary people? Maybe we are the only sick family on the block?
I am so weak from life. However, inside I am an amazingly funny, creative strong person with ideas. But i’ve handed my strength over to this person. willingly. And I firmly believe nobody can abuse unless you LET them. I have been allowing this for some strange reason.
Ok, so then- I have to stop him from this koikes. I know.
Just for an update, I did call Shalom Task Force this morning, and she said all that you Posters are saying. “Its not normal, its going to escalate…..that He did this to hurt me, and control me”. I did as she instructed and called our Rav, who is waiting now to hear from my husband. The Rav was extremely disturbed and animated in his response making it clear to me that this must be tackled as a priority issue. That he finds it unacceptable. My husband feels weak and nervous, like he is going to “get it”. I feel bad for him. I would also feel terrible if he had have called the Rav when I was having a nervous breakdown screaming at him and the children. ONce I was so angry, I threw a yartzheit candle that still had hot liquid wax in the bottom of the tin can, right towards his chair which he was sitting in. Luckily it splashed on the fabric and not him. I felt very bad.
yes, we need help. yes its all unhealthy. But i blame him, because i wouldnt have been so angry if he had have been reasonable and gave me a conversation and communication whereby to help repair the marriage, in that incidence above. But, yes it was wrong. WE both need help.January 8, 2012 8:05 pm at 8:05 pm #842340
I’m petrified that this rationalizing you are doing will prevent you from leaving.
The answer is NO! we dont slam our childrens heads into the wall, no matter how angry we get. And I used to get pretty angry. Please don’t dance yourself out of this and PLEASE dont let your rav convince you that your husband plans on trying harder. Its all part of the game.January 8, 2012 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #842341
Always: Banging a child’s head against a wall is a very violent act. It is never done by a healthy parent.
Furthermore, to deny it and make the child not believe what actually happened is totally abusive. Such talk is deliberate and is never a mistakeJanuary 8, 2012 8:09 pm at 8:09 pm #842342
Excellent start!! Hang in, we’re all rooting for you. And davening too!! It may not be easy, but please hang in there. We all care.January 8, 2012 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #842343
always runs with scissors fast
please check your email (the one you used to sign up for this account)January 8, 2012 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #842344
yeah flowers you’re right. he did try to cover it up!
but would it have been truly better if he had have just admitted it and expressed true remorse off the bat? Mabye he was just scared of the ramifications of admitting the truth? tell me what you think pls.January 8, 2012 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #842345
Always, I just read your post, and I am so sorry to hear about what you are going through. At the same time, it is very comforting to see so many posters here offering you help, encouragement, and comfort. Know that we all care greatly about you and may whatever course of action you decide to take bring you and your children much peace, happiness, and safety.
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