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Please stop justifying his behavior
Please stop believing that you are the cause for his actions
Please stop reminding us that he is not hitting you, only your young daughters
Please stop trying to put each action of his into a vacuum, and rationalizing it.
It is the whole picture which you must look at. You can sit here and type as much as you’d like, but how much more do your children need to take from their “father”?
Their emotional scars are only imaginable to us here in the cr, how much must their physical scars increase until you’ll have the courage to protect them? broken bones? emergency room visits? teachers calling social services?
Like I said before, you know what is right and you know what you need to do.
May Hashem grant you the koach necessary for this.
PS I have strong reservations about the diagnosis of PPD. At some point PPD ends and real depression from that which is your reality, takes over.
I think that you both need help but I believe that by you taking the first step, you are on the right path to recovery. You are expressing yourself to all of us, hopefully unburdening yourself of some of your guilt feelings, a lot of these feelings coming from your terrible childhood. I hope you are lead to the right “shlichim” so that you, your husband, and your children can be healed quickly. Once again, hatzlocha raba. Keep us posted on your recovery and future successes in all your endeavors. I know you could do it, you do sound very sane and strong and willful.
please call sparks. they can help you and give you the chizuk you
need. 1 718 2 sparks.
ARWSF – You made the right move by calling and getting in touch with a Rov and STF. But this is a very minute beginning. Either call the Rov or STF again and get names of therapists and psychiatrists and let them get you an immediate appt. If not tomorrow, they should be able to get you in sometime this week.
Don’t go back to the psychiatrist that you got into a fight with, go to s/o new. You need to start fresh!
Always, I respect you greatly for your honesty and realistic perspective. Here’s a suggestion: Ask DH how much he thinks it’s your fault and how much his. I don’t think he’ll say it’s 100% yours and 0% his. If he says it’s 99% yours and 1% his, say, “OK, I’m ready, willing and able to work on my 99%. Are you ready, willing and able to work on your 1%?”
Always: Syag and flowers are right. We never bang our kids heads against the wall. Yes we have been frustrated at times but NEVER VIOLENT!!! Please stop making excuses for him!!!! I agree you both need help. But please, for the sake of your children – if not you yourself- GET HELP IMMEDIATELY!! Making those phone calls was a great start but don’t just stop there!
What you write in your post #91 may be true – maybe he is a victim as well. And there might be a way to repair things and to stay together, though it will be very difficult.
However, I would say the first priority should be to be separate for a while. He should understand that it has gone too far. He needs therapy – and so do you, and the children.
After that, when your mind is clear and the wounds are healing, you can think about the future – with him or without him.
i posted this a few times in other abuse related threads…
abuse is about power and control. whatever the reason, whatever the possible cause, whether you, in his mind at least, were the cause because of your depression or whether he does it because its a shortcut, you have to realize two things.
1) he will do it again. he WILL do it again. there is no question about it. someone who has abused WILL abuse. it only makes sense after all. i mean lets say he tells you or the kids to do something and they refuse. so he tells her again. she refuses again. so he yells, and she still refuses. so he yells even louder and raises a hand. NOW she stops because she is terrified.
and this continues for a week or two until one day raising his hand and his voice no longer work on your precious daughter so after doing the usual, he now brings his hand down on her face. that gets the message across. until it doesnt. and thats when her head gets banged into a wall. and that works…until it doesnt. what then?
someone who gets used to exerting power and control by means of physical violence or emotional abuse never stops taking that shortcut because why should he? all he has to do is escalate and his subjects will listen…
2) this addresses your question “was it my fault” the answer is…that its completely irrelevant. i should amend that. not only is the answer no, the answer is irrelevant. take a step back from your marriage and your kids and review the situation in your mind’s eye as an unbiased third party.
you walk into a house where the mother is depressed (for whatever reason, quite possibly due to an abusive husband) and you see the mother lying upstairs when all of a sudden you hear a BANG! so you go running and you see the father bashing his little daughter’s head against a wall! the daughter runs away, crying to her mommy for comfort from her big bad daddy, and the daddy follows to where the mommy lies, trying to justify his actions or cover them up.
if that was in a movie you watched youd be cringing, yelling, crying, or all of the above. as well you should. youd be outraged that the father could ever do that.
do you know why? because that is not how normal people resolve conflict. normal people resolve conflict through rational, if a bit heated, discussion. shouting matches between couples, while not recommended, happens every now and again because that is how conflicts are resolved. both sides are angry about spomething, both sides need to let off some steam, so they yell at each other for an hour or two, they make up, and everything’s back together.
(by the way, the whole shouting match thing is hardly ideal…but it does happen every now and again)
THEY DO NOT BANG THEIR KIDS HEADS AGAINST THE WALL!!!
i dont care what you think you may have done to set him off, what psychological eggshells on which you may or may not have been treading when dealing with your husband…it is not in any way your fault the way he treats you and your children.
now for what to do. i grew up in an abusive home. my mother was bipolar and didnt always take her meds. when she got manic…i got abused. for the first 13 years of my life it was severe emotional abuse, but past that it progressed to physical abuse. and it never let up. once she started down that road the abuse got worse and wrose and worse until i had to beat her with a belt to get the message across that i was stronger and that she couldnt abuse me. no one should ever have to hit their mother.
your daughter should never have to hit her father. but trust me if you stay there the day may very well come when your daughter realizes that a knife can be used for more than cutting carrots, or a hammer can be used for more than banging nails and when that day comes it will all be too late for everyone involved.
abuse is like an avalanche. it snowballs, and snowballs, and keeps on p[rogressing until an unstoppable force meets an immovable object and then you have the answer to the age old question.
please, i beg of you, for the sake of your kids, for your own sake, and if it makes any difference for the sake of your husband…get the heck out of your house as soon as you possibly can along with your children. make sure you have evidence of his abuse, and run and run fast. leave him behind and never look back. it will be painful for weeks, months, perhaps years, but ultimately you will realize that you made the best and only possible decision for your and your children’s lives.
hatzlacha and i wish you only the best in life.
always runs-
I’m very happy to see that you contacted Shalom Task Force. The first step is the hardest. But as other people mentioned, don’t just stop now. Hatzlacha with everything. We’re rooting for you! (And davening for you!)
Goq-
I’m sorry you went through what you did. You should just know that (at least from the CR) you seem to be completely normal (that would be a good thing) and an all around great person. Keep up the good work.
Always, obviously you can see how concerned everyone here is about you. And how everyone here is basically of the same opinion. There is a reason for that. We all understand that no one is perfect and that you yourself have much room for improvement. But you are able to admit your faults and that will be very helpful when you start your therapy with the kids. It will allow for a platform of healing.
On the other hand, the fact that you are making excuses for him and looking for reasons why he is doing this, is another sign of abuse. You almost sound like a victim of Stockholm’s Syndrome. Do you realizes what your statement sounds like? “He never hit me just the children?” How skewered and backwards is that? It would be a much better and safer statement had you said “He never hit the children only me”. The children are so vulnerable and at least a spouse is an adult and can defend themselves to some degree. The children are helpless. He is smart in that he doesn’t hit you because YOU can show your bruises to a Rav or cops, or you can withhold from him what he wants the most. The children cannot.
Always, please please understand that the fact that you are willing to accept responsibility for your own part in this does not remove one ounce of responsibility for what your husband has been doing. You are responsible and accountable for your actions. HE is responsible and accountable for his actions. His actions are totally and unequivocally unacceptable. If you truly care about him, and if you want to make an attempt at “fixing”s the marriage and family, you have to consider truly opening up the windows and letting the fresh air in. That means removing him from the home, and making the home a peaceful place. If the Rav is the one that can help, tell the Rav to find a therapist for both of you, but in the mean time he has to move out so the kids are safe. Many couples go through a separation in order to cure the ills of their marriage. If both partners are serious about healing their marriage they will do whatever they possibly can to work on themselves and get back together.
It is very important that the children feel a sense of safety and security. They are NOT dispensable and they are not punching bags. You feel like you are all alone. You know what you felt like as a child with an abusive parent. Please don’t put your children through that as well. You didn’t bring them into this world to feel worthless. You don’t want your children to blame you or walk away from you because you allowed this to happen to them. They deserved to be healthy, happy and safe and so do you. The memories of your childhood are horrid. Why should the memories you are building raising your children be the same. Please think about what I am telling you and do what is necessary to make beautiful and happy memories with your children.
ARWSF: a huge Yasher Koach to you for taking the first step towards healing your family. I hope that you and your husband have the strength to follow thru with the professionals you have contacted.
reading through the posts here, i would caution you that now that you HAVE contacted professionals, you shouldn’t necessarily internalize the messages being said here. i understand many are talking based on personal experience, but so am i. those who are saying “an abuser will abuse again…” is only in a case where you don’t seek help. also, there IS a difference btwn an abusive spouse and an abusive action taken by an angry spouse. as long as you are seeking help and FOLLOWING THROUGH with therapy (individual, couples, family) etc, your marriage and your family have hope.
daven to Hashem for the strength you will need.
OK i back..was out most of day with DH..
He wanted me to come along..
as soon as I get into car the yelling and blaming starts..
I asked, for this I came with you?
now to answer your questions..
its not B12 (even though its also good)..
B-COMPLEX is the vitamin, I have a friend who is taking 3×3 pills a day.and this comes recommended thru a nutritionist. its not an overdose! truthfully that much would make me nauseous but at some points in my life I opted for the nausea rather than the depression..
always- does ur dh only pick on one of your children?
besides making up stories and assumptions just so he can be angry my dh has one child in particular that gets a tripldose!
and as you askd earlier on.. Yes I would love to have a normal respectful loving relationship as we once had, but if this is how he acts and doesnt want to get help for anger control etc.. i refuse to suffer and be a victim of his mishigassen and that also erks him, that i hav such a great attitude and happy disposition and accept my ‘horrible bad chutspedigge’ children (which they r obviously not) just the way they are.. while he is SUFFERING.
Yes he has som slight health issues.. but nothing that cannot be taken care of and he just refuses to try to get help so he just broods and this is part of all the anger and horrifying attitude..
oy.. the list goes on but I must go take care of dear children and get them ready for bed..
I check situation soon
Always, I hear you that you don’t want to accept what I have to say. That is fine. You don’t appreciate my advice, I hear that as well. I am not judging you or your situation, I am concerned and just pointing things out to make the point and encourage you to take action. I did not say you had SS, I said that it is beginning to sound like what victims of that disorder sound like when they defend their abusers and captors. That makes no sense, and victims of abuse taking blame for abuse makes no sense either, but it happens.
You needed support and I offered you my support, you don’t have to accept it. I am very happy for you that you are seeking help. Hatzlocha Rabba.
Aries -“On the other hand, the fact that you are making excuses for him and looking for reasons why he is doing this, is another sign of abuse. You almost sound like a victim of Stockholm’s Syndrome.”
I never made excuses for my ex, but a lot of other people did, esp. some of my family. Some people just use anybody in the world to go about with their nefarious plans. My ex was just a victim of these horrible people!
Always: Look at what you wrote:
“I must reiterate HE IS NOT VIOLENT TOWARDS ME or even walls or objects (i have done that) he just lost his temper at our child”
He JUST lost his temper at your child??? This wasn’t the first time.(even ONE time is too many) You said he did it to another child 7 years ago. He also reacted very badly when your daughter was eating candy Friday night. I’m sure there are more cases you didn’t tell us about.
I know you love your children very much so please please think of them! Of course you should be thinking of yourself as well. Please let us know what happened tonight when your husband came home!!! We are worried about you. Don’t stop posting here. All the best to you!!!!
Just to throw in my 2 cents to the advice the obvious advice of get help.
I grew up with a narcissist father and mother suffering from battered wife syndrome (which you seem to suffer from as well). By the time I had my bar mitzvah I had already asked my mother why she doesn’t divorce my father. That was when he still hit us (‘us’ as in the children, he never hit my mother). Around that time my mother was somehow able to get him to stop. However, the psychological abuse remained and if anything increased once he no longer opted to vent his tension physically.
The pros of staying in an abusive relationship for your children
-your children will “know their father”
-your children will have have economical support.
The cons of staying in an abusive relationship for your children
-your children will “know (the monster that) their father (is)”
-your children will learn to mimic the relationships they see to their own spouses
-your children will suffer psychological problems of their own, that they may spend the rest of their lives working through
My father also had his “good times”. In fact that’s part of the cycle of an abuser. The abuse need not be physical for it to be damaging. Most of my father’s abuse was/is psychological.
I urge you b’chol minei bakashos, to continue to pursue help from a rov, the task force or any other lifeline, with every ounce of strength you have. Whatever you are willing to suffer with from your husband, you’re children don’t have the understanding that you have and the abuse is all the more intense coming from a person who should ostensibly be their protector. As hard as it may be now, when you’re children are older they will appreciate the true mesirus nefesh that you had to protect them by saving them from an abusive father way more then for “putting up with him”. That seems to be a mistake that my mother made and she suffers from that decision daily, whether she is capable of recognizing it anymore or not.
DFor your sake and for the sake of your children, pursue help from any source you can find it. Persevere and do not stop until this situation is completely resolved.
always,
Reading your OP, am I understanding that this is the first time in 7 years that he acted physically (seriously) on one of the children?
I agree with your approach in seeking your Rov in helping with this situation.
arwsf – Does your husband know your SN?
wishing you strenghth and courage for the many days to come.
First of all, please be careful with details. This is not a live chat. Whatever gets put up here is here to stay (until someone decides to take it down).
Now, it seems to me that many people have this attitude that an abuser is a sort of humanoid being that is born to punch. However, as Cheftza pointed out, a good reading and following of your story shows that you are married for at least seven years, and the situation deteriorated over the past two years. You mention other factors as well.
It is important that you got in touch with whomever you did, and hopefully things will Bezras Hashem improve greatly. The point I want to make is that you shouldn’t think of him as a monster. What drives a woman to sully in bed on Shabbos noon, drives a man to become vicious. It is obvious that a build up of tensions of two years (at least), drove him insane.
Hashem said to Adam, ???? ??? ???? ?????. The Medrash asks that we don’t find that Chava told Adam anything. The Medrash explains that she was about to cry. From this Medrash you can gain an understanding of how deep a wife can get into her husbands psyche, with subtle nags and whimpers. The immense pressure put on Adam by the fact that he is about to make her cry made him sin. And that is without having an internal Yetzer Hara. Here too, don’t underestimate the effect of the home atmosphere on his inner turmoil.
Just keep in mind that the situation is far from too far. And as essy8 said, don’t let the negative and scary premonitions discourage you. Most people attribute their own stories to everybody else. There is no reason to think that you are living someone else’s life story.
I feel so sorry for you. i didn’t get to read everyones posts, so maybe someone said this already.
i know it’s hard, very hard. but i don’t think the cops is the way to go.
if you feel like you are ready to end the marriage (and if you think so, just make sure you realize what that means and what it can bring like custody issues, money issues and you say his controlling, so that doesn’t help.bear in mind that he might terrorize the kids, try to kidnap them, sike them against you, drill into them to hate you etc.) it’s really heartbreaking.
if he says you could work things out, then in some way or another, convince yourselves to seek professional help from a team of psychologists and therapists – as hard as it may be, and as expensive as it may be. this might be the solution.
chances are that at this stage you will need family rehab.
obviously, your spouse is missing something very basic. it can be an emotional or physical or both. if his need will be fullfilled, everything will begin to be fine.
maybe he wants to feel more respected? more usefull? more important? more bossy? or many other things. it might be hard, but by filling that emptiness as hard as it may be, your salvation will come slowly.
also, your talking it out to someone, and getting chizuk from a strong trusted person, may help you heal the wounds and rebuild your relationship. I know that confidential hotlines exist, just donno which ones. do your research.
i wish you much hatzlacha and siata dishmaya from the depths of my heart. may there be no more suffering umongst our nation.
please post when things are going good too.
P.S. i’m sorry i can’t give you chizuk, but my heart is broken now.
but would it have been truly better if he had have just admitted it and expressed true remorse off the bat? Mabye he was just scared of the ramifications of admitting the truth? tell me what you think pls.
I think you can’t excuse his behavior saying that he lost control and didn’t mean to do what he did if afterwards he didn’t own up to what he did and express remorse. If he would have been shaken up by what he did, I can understand you thinking, well, we all get angry at our children, and he just lost control, but it seems you are just looking for ways to give him the benefit of the doubt, without any justification. This may seem like a wonderful middah, but your case, it definitely isn’t, because the ramifications are tremendous and nobody deserves to be treated this way.
I hope very much you didn’t excuse his behavior to your 6 year old. I also hope you told her that you believe her account. It is extremely damaging to a child to have her doubt something she herself witnessed.
However, inside I am an amazingly funny, creative strong person with ideas.
I have always thought this about you from other threads you have posted on. Not to mention your screen name which is a riot and takes creativity to think of.
I have heard wonderful things about Shalom Task Force. It is important that you keep in contact with them so they can guide you.
Hatzlacha rabba. And please continue to post. We care. And so many members here can give you emotional support.
Change that to “sulk”.
idk if you noticed my post because the mods were a bit late in puting it up and it went in with a whole bunch of others…but i think its k’dai to read…
always runs-
I hope things went as well as can be expected last night. I’ll be davening for you, your husband and children that you should all get the help you need, have the courage and clarity to make the right decisions, and enjoy a happy future together.
I don’t know you or your husband so I will not offer any comments or advice. But thank you for reaching out to your Rav. Hopefully this will be the beginning of change for all of you. Hugs to you and lots of hatzlacha.
But I have a problem with your “smartness” because you give a lot of advice that sounds like the banging of an empty drum.
Aries was giving advice out of the goodness of her heart. And her posts in the CR are generally full of insight and “smartness”.
You don’t have to agree with what she said. But that was plain mean.
Abusive men have 2 extremes…they are either Monsters or are the kindness most sweetest Dad/Husband you will ever meet…That is there pattern.
One minute they can be hitting you and your kids, the next they are helping you with every household chore and reading your kids bed time stories….
But under all that sweetness a monster lies beneath….Do yourself and kids a favour and get Help.
He will be abusive again, the next time it may be worse than a shove and a tongue lashing….
has the rov spoken to your dh?
Dear Kapusta, ARWSF ty for your kind words.
Always, please read babygoose’s post as if I had written the same and more (if I had the time).
I’ve been reading your posts and everyone’s posts.
Hashem should give you lots of strength. I’m thinking of you as I’m sure everyone is.
Some things I’m thinking maybe there were said already in a sense. There are many helpful Rebbetzin’s, Rabbonim and therapists. But keep your wits about you as to when you feel someone is helpful, can really understand and is objective. Don’t just spill your guts to anyone assuming they’ll be totally on your side.
I agree with the poster who wrote there are abusive husbands and husbands that are angry, under stress and ACT in an abusive way. An abuser can ACT caring and loving. A frustrated, stressed husband can be caring and he really is, and does INSIDE feel remorse for what he’s doing although he may not show it on the outside. Don’t everyone disagree with me, because I know someone like that.
I think you have to think about (with help perhaps)- would he want to improve, would he want help. If the answer is he’s too angry, too far gone, not intersted in working things out. Or does he sincerely want to change – especially if he’s not criticized but encouraged.
Flowers, thank you I appreciate your kind words.
Hi arwsf.
I am very sorry for what you and your children are going through. I will daven for things to get better.
I could not read much past when you described the bump on your daughter’s head. I cannot read much into the responses, which I am sure are all supportive, so I apologize for any redundancy.
You must make your home situation known for the sake of your children and you and eventually your husband to get at what is eating him.
Firstly, secondly, and thirdly, you must protect your children and yourself.
It would probably be better to go within the Jewish community, right away.
If that does not help, then he needs to be removed and go to the appropriate counseling or whatever they do.
It is not an easy thing to do, as I know you know the good side to him too and hope that his most recent episode is his last.
The environment you described will erode on the children’s development if they continue to be part of such horrible scenes.
You need to feel your children are safe.
He needs to keep himself on being a human being and I am sure sulks even more after he does what he does. He needs help and to delve into why he is doing this, while the rest of the family is safe and secure.
If he is owning up to this problem, then demand you both go speak to someone. If he seems like a stranger and is not owning up to it, then you and the children need to speak to someone, and he has to stay somewhere until he chills out and gets help.
It’s bad now. Please dont wait to at least speak to a leader in your community.
Oy! I wish there was something I could do to help.
May Hashem restore the peacefulness to your family and home.
I know I’m coming in the middle of a very heated conversation and haven’t been following the posts since motzei shabbos, however your comment of “he isn’t violent towards me” needs explanation.
You’ve said that your scared of what your husband will do to you and that he threatens you not to take your medication. If this is the case then the only reason he isn’t violent towards you is because you’re scared of him (but if you weren’t he would be violent towards you)
“Meaning yes, he pulled her (with authoritative force) by the hand to bring her out of the room (as she & he explained me) and which resulted in her hitting the door frame, but he wasn’t aware she had hit her head on the door frame because he was leading her out of the room, while facing the hall, pulling her out with one hand.”
In other words, he pulled her so angrily that he had no idea where she was nor what she was being slammed into. But by golly, she was going where he wanted her to go, regardless of her health and welfare.
ARFWS, that may have not been intentional, but that’s not an accident. He was out of control with anger. He needs help.
I didn’t want to post here, as I am not a professional and others can do a much better job than myself. HOWEVER
You need to protect your children. Having a backup plan is one of the smartest things you can possibly do (in any situation).
I’m also going to suggest a (somewhat long) vacation without the children, Assuming your DH is just out of his league, and unable to cope with your (I’m sure) normal acting children. This is not uncommon in the slightest (which is one of the reasons why many Rabbonim approve BC). A reset in his mind caused by some time (2-3 weeks, maybe even a month) without the children underfoot & only you his spouse at his side will do him (and you) much good, assuming his issues are stress related & not abuse, (Echoing Kollel Wife) but you do need a professional to figure it out.
I wish you Hatzlacha, and whatever your decision may be, may Hashem make it the right one for you & your family.
I think it is wonderful that you took the first step, and spoke to a Rav to help you figure out how to proceed. He should be the shliach from hashem to help resolve this situation.
Whatever advice and course of action he dispenses and prescribes, I don’t think the CR needs twice daily updates. This is not a reality TV show. Of course, if the Rav you are speaking with disagrees, listen to what he says, not me.
Always: I’m glad you spoke to your Rav and he is willing to help with your husband. Now what about you personally? Please call Sparks 1718 2 sparks.Ask for Rivky. They can help you with your issues. Didn’t you write recently that you are marrying off a son? There really has alot been going on , you need to do whatever you can for yourself too!
always runs with scissors fast- I am reposting part of what I wrote earlier as it appears it is becoming more and more on target.
DO NOT blame yourself. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.
IGNORE every post saying “I think your husband has this problem” or ” Your biggest problem is this..”
STOP posting anecdotes of what happened. There will be five different interpretations of everything you post and may not help you at all.
You and your husband both need professional help, both medical and social/emotional. GO GET THAT HELP. Do not try to use the CR as a substitute until then.
Hatzlocha Rabbah
Derech HaMelech: You come across as an even-tempered and emotionally stable person and so you must have successfully dealt with the childhood experiences you mentioned.
If you’ve no objections, perhaps you could share some survival tips and suggestions.
Always Runs: “But more than just running the show, do u know what bothers me? It’s the burial of the dream that we could really be happy, whole and healthy together… “
It’s painful to let go of any dream, certainly one as basic as that. But you don’t need to do that. Perhaps just put it to one side now and work on other dreams over which you have control – such as becoming the type of person you want to be.
gavra_at_work: very good suggestion.
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