Home › Forums › Controversial Topics › Voting for the World Zionist Congress
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March 29, 2015 2:22 am at 2:22 am #615377mw13Participant
After reading this week’s Mishpacha, in which this subject was very much promoted, I was wondering if anybody here has voted or is planning on voting in the election for the WZC? Also, does anybody know the positions of any Rabbonim or Roshei Yeshivos as to voting?
March 29, 2015 2:28 am at 2:28 am #1082369JosephParticipantOnce voting in WZC elections, don’t forget to do the same in United Synagogue and HUC elections.
March 29, 2015 2:29 am at 2:29 am #1082370mw13ParticipantSome background information:
“The World Zionist Congress (WZC) meets every five years to discuss issues of vital importance to the global Jewish community, i.e. Jewish identity, peace and security, anti-semitism, civil society in Israel, and the future of the State of Israel. Voting in the upcoming 37th WZC offers a unique opportunity for you to cast your vote to send delegates to the WZC to represent your voice.”
The WZC also apparently gets a say in the policies and allotment of funds of the Keren Kayamet Le’Yisrael and the Jewish Agency.
The slates running for the WZC include:
Mercaz USA: The Zionist Arm of the Conservative Movement
ARZA: Representing Reform Judaism
Religious Zionist Slate: Vote Torah for the Soul of Israel
Perhaps the most controversial part of voting in the WZC lection is that to in order to do so, one must declare that they accept the Jerusalem Program:
“Zionism, the national liberation movement of the Jewish people, brought about the establishment of the State of Israel, and views a Jewish, Zionist, democratic and secure State of Israel to be the expression of the common responsibility of the Jewish people for its continuity and future.
The foundations of Zionism are:
The unity of the Jewish people, its bond to its historic homeland Eretz Yisrael, and the centrality of the State of Israel and Jerusalem, its capital, in the life of the nation.
Aliyah to Israel from all countries and the effective integration of all immigrants into Israeli Society.
Strengthening Israel as a Jewish, Zionist and democratic state and shaping it as an exemplary society with a unique moral and spiritual character, marked by mutual respect for the multi-faceted Jewish people, rooted in the vision of the prophets, striving for peace and contributing to the betterment of the world.
Ensuring the future and the distinctiveness of the Jewish people by furthering Jewish, Hebrew and Zionist education, fostering spiritual and cultural values and teaching Hebrew as the national language.
Nurturing mutual Jewish responsibility, defending the rights of Jews as individuals and as a nation, representing the national Zionist interests of the Jewish people, and struggling against all manifestations of anti-Semitism.
Settling the country as an expression of practical Zionism.”
March 29, 2015 2:33 am at 2:33 am #1082371JosephParticipantThe World Zionist Congress, founded by Theodor Herzl ym’s, has no influence on normal Yidden.
Mishpacha is on the left-wing of the chareidi world. Forget the position of Rabbonim or Roshei Yeshivos as to voting in WZC elections, none of the gedolim do so, but rather ask the more pertinenet and unanswerable question as to which Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshivos support Mishpacha.
March 29, 2015 3:01 am at 3:01 am #1082372sirvoddmortMemberEverything I has planned to say has already been said. If Mishpacha truly did promote WZC it should face a stiff backlash. On a more general point, the Mishpacha has a track record of legitimizing institutions that run contrary to Torah life.
March 29, 2015 6:25 am at 6:25 am #1082373Sam2ParticipantR’ Schachter endorses the Vote Torah slate of the WZC, or so I’ve been told. I don’t know if that’s a straight-out Shittah or an opinion that once the WZC exists, we should try to get as many Frum people as possible in leadership positions.
Joseph: That’s unfair. Do you say YM”S by every single Jew who grew up not-Frum and stayed that way?
March 29, 2015 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #1082374Rebbe YidParticipantThe chareidi MK’s have to take an oath of allegiance to the State of Israel:
“I pledge myself to bear allegiance to the State of Israel and faithfully to discharge my mandate in the Knesset.”
And the rabbonim who support them don’t seem to have a problem with this. I realize it’s not the same as the declaration on the Zionist elections page, but it’s still an issue if you’re anti-medinah.
March 29, 2015 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #1082375JosephParticipantRav Eliashev publicly said (available on a recording) that the Kenesset is a “beis minus”. Obviously the Chaereidi MKs have a heter to enter. But as a rule that’s what it is. And frum Jews shouldn’t enter the perimeters of the Kenesset.
March 29, 2015 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #1082376mw13ParticipantA clarification: the Mishpacha did not actually advocate for voting in the WZC elections. Yonoson Rosenblum, in an editorial titled “Ideological Purity vs. Practical Results”, merely pointed out that there is lot at stake in these elections since the Reform and Conservative movements are making serious attempts to gain influence and push their agendas on the Israeli and international Jewish scene. He ends with the suggestion that one ask this question to their Rov/Poisek.
Rebbe Yid &Joseph:
I think your comparison between the Israeli Knesset and the WZC is perhaps more apt than you realize. The vast majority of mainstream Chareidi Gedolim have long advocated voting in the Israeli elections for parties that will strengthen the Halachic observance and the Jewish character of the state. A very strong argument could be made that the same should apply here.
There are only two differences that I can think of between voting in the elections for the Israeli Knesset and the WZC: First of all, in order to do so one must affirm that they believe the “Jerusalem Program” is true. But as R’ Yair Hoffman explains in the YW news section, that isn’t really too problematic. But perhaps the bigger issue is that there is no Chareidi party or slate running in WZC elections; the only frum slate is comprised of Dati Leumi / Modern Orthodox delegates and positions. These positions will no doubt drastically differ from those taken by the Chareidi Rabbonim on a number of issues. So the real question is, should we vote for somebody who we sometimes disagree with, so that they should replace somebody who we disagree with more?
Sam2, R’ Hershel Shachter is actually the first delegate on the Religious Zionist slate.
March 30, 2015 3:44 am at 3:44 am #1082377☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant“A clarification: the Mishpacha did not actually advocate for voting in the WZC elections. Yonoson Rosenblum, in an editorial…”
Actually, they also ran an article about the whole thing,
though it did not actually say to go out and do it.
March 30, 2015 6:05 am at 6:05 am #1082378Sam2Participantmw13: That does not change what I said.
March 30, 2015 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #1082379mw13ParticipantSam2: I was supporting what you said, not challenging it.
March 30, 2015 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #1082380JosephParticipantEven under the best realistic case scenario, the religious slate will not have enough influence to make any serious change in what is funded by the WZC.
Furthermore, the kind of things the WZC is commissioned to fund would have little impact on religious Jews even if religious Jews outright controlled the WZC (which everyone knows won’t come close to happening even under the best case scenario.)
April 14, 2015 2:06 am at 2:06 am #1082381JosephParticipantThat’s unfair. Do you say YM”S by every single Jew who grew up not-Frum and stayed that way?
April 14, 2015 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1082382mw13ParticipantThat’s unfair. Do you say YM”S by every single Jew who grew up not-Frum and stayed that way?
I think one can differentiate between a Jew who “grew up not-Frum and stayed that way” and somebody who started an anti-religious movement that sought to replace religion, long the defining characteristic of the Jewish people, with what was essentially just standard twentieth century nationalism.
April 14, 2015 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #1082383Sam2Participantmw13: Meh. Pashtus is that Herzl would have been happy if every Jew was not Frum or if every Jew was Frum, as long as they had a unifying ethnicity and place to live. He wasn’t anti-religious per se (I think), just anti-fractionism.
April 15, 2015 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #1082384mw13ParticipantSam2:
First of all, I think you may be somewhat whitewashing Herzl’s record; my impression was always that he sought to create a “new Jew”, focused entirely on self-determination and preservation, not on old-fashioned religion. (Although I do admit that these ideas are open to different interpretations.)
But even that wasn’t my main point; I was simply pointing out that Herzl was not just a “Jew who grew up not-Frum and stayed that way”; he was the founder of a movement that has considerably affected large segments of Jewry. How one relates to Herzl will be affected by, if not dependent on, one’s perception of the ideology he founded and its effects on world Jewry.
May 6, 2015 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #1082385BHTWIAParticipantVoting ended April 30. Have the results been released? If so, I have not been able to locate them. Does anyone know where to find them? If not, when will they be released?
May 7, 2015 1:56 am at 1:56 am #1082386Rebbe YidParticipant“Once voting in WZC elections, don’t forget to do the same in United Synagogue and HUC elections.”
Why wouldn’t I, if there was a frum candidate running?
“Rav Eliashev publicly said (available on a recording) that the Kenesset is a “beis minus”. Obviously the Chaereidi MKs have a heter to enter. But as a rule that’s what it is. And frum Jews shouldn’t enter the perimeters of the Kenesset.”
And yet many gedolim vote in kenesset elections, so why can’t we vote in WJC elections?
May 7, 2015 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #1082387BHTWIAParticipantThank you, Reb Yid, but as the elections are now closed, there is no reason to try to convince anyone to vote or not to vote. However, is anyone aware of the results? If they have not yet been published, is anyone aware of when and where they will be available?
Thanks!
May 14, 2015 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #1082388BHTWIAParticipantBUMP!
Has anyone heard or seen results? If so, what are they or where can we see them?
Thanks
May 14, 2015 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #1082389Rebbe YidParticipant“Mishpacha is on the left-wing of the chareidi world.”
How about AMI Magazine? Is that too left wing for Joseph? LOL
Because they had an article this week by Rav Frankfurter that Rav Aharon Kotler said people should vote in the kenesset elections. And that, according to Rav Dovid son of the Brisker, the Brisker was for the most part silent on the issue.
May 14, 2015 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #1082390JosephParticipantAMI even somewhat more than Mishpacha. I wasn’t comparing them to each other. Both are in the same category. Them throwing in some kosher knoodles with each issue doesn’t kasher the pot.
May 14, 2015 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #1082391MDGParticipantThe Chiddushi Harim (1st Gerrer Rebbe) says that one cannot say Y”Sh about a non-frum Jew. He brings a proof from Yibum. If a mumar dies without children, his brother is still obligated to do yibum, which is to perpetuate the dead brother’s name.
May 14, 2015 7:57 pm at 7:57 pm #1082392JosephParticipantThe Chazon Ish held you could say it about him in particular. (The earlier story was regarding if a non-religious person is listening.)
May 15, 2015 1:40 am at 1:40 am #1082393Rebbe YidParticipantJoseph: You don’t really think that I was in any way valuing your judgment of other people’s frumkeit, do you?
May 18, 2015 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #1082394BHTWIAParticipantFor those of you who are also curious about the results (I can’t be the only one, can I?) I thought I would share the following, which I will paste below and was on the website of the American Zionist Movement:
The U.S. Area Election Committee voted to delay calculation of the votes until disputes regarding the registration list have been resolved. We anticipate being able to release the results of the election in early June. Even then there may be disputes awaiting adjudication in Jerusalem. Everyone would like to see results and they will be released as soon as possible. Watch this website for more information.
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