Voting thoughts

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  • #1284363

    M
    Participant

    Now that the POTUS has — predictably — publicized his interest in cutting funding to Medicaid, food stamps, and other social welfare programs, I am curious how CR Trump voters feel about him. I know that many of my family and friends in BMG etc will be very hurt by these cuts (if they happen).

    #1284492

    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    i believe it isnt such a bad move by trump, even though it hurts us. And benefits like these are a brachah but not deserved

    #1284501

    M
    Participant

    I agree with oyyoyyoy – it might be necessary to cut down on spending so the US won’t be forced to default on our loans. At the same time, what would you tell a mother who depends on this government aid just to survive? Too bad, this is what’s best for the country? Do you think that people will find ways of getting help from other places? Do you think that more people will decide to leave yeshiva and enter the work-force?

    #1284508

    Joseph
    Participant

    POTUS is NOT proposing to eliminate Medicaid, Food Stamps and welfare. He’s proposing to change the benefit levels to an amount below the current spending.

    Who said the current benefits amount is most ideal? If previous administrations raised the benefits to higher amounts, no future Congress can every lower it? That’s absurd.

    #1284566

    M
    Participant

    To Joseph – I hear what you’re saying and am not disagreeing. For all I know, maybe changing benefit levels etc will force healthcare providers to change rates, etc, and maybe in the end the US government will pay less and more people will end up healthy! Since the US government can’t afford all of this, maybe it shouldn’t be paying so much to help the poor. And right, maybe the current benefits are too high in some sense. Instead of a family of 4 receiving $649 a month, maybe they should receive only $465, or only $65, or nothing. Who knows; I don’t think there’s a right or wrong about this.

    I’m just asking about whether these changes will make many of us, who have family and friends that really depend on them, to change our views of the president. He ran on a platform of helping the regular people. Instead he’s proposing tax changes that would substantially benefit the wealthy and substantially hurt those with less. I know my friends will feel this even if it’s just changing benefit levels etc.

    #1284578

    Meno
    Participant

    He ran on a platform of helping the regular people

    Who are the regular people?

    #1284584

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    oyyoyyoy,

    And benefits like these are a brachah but not deserved

    Whether or not anyone “deserves” a benefit is a red herring. Who “deserves” anything? The basis of the U.S. government, the Constitution, explicitly states that the purpose of the government is to, among other things, “promote the general Welfare.” Poverty and hunger, particularly among children who cannot choose who their parents, are not good for the welfare of the nation.

    #1284590

    Meno
    Participant

    People who receive benefits when they could be working instead are also not good for the welfare of the nation

    #1284618

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Meno,

    People who receive benefits when they could be working instead are also not good for the welfare of the nation

    Do you think the presence of benefits is a significant contributor to unemployment? I think a bigger problem is the gap between the “poverty” rates that determines benefits and what a true livable income is. If you were offered a job that would result in a reduction of your income, would you take it?

    #1284628

    Meno
    Participant

    Avram, I completely agree.

    I don’t deny that the whole benefits system is a good thing, but it has to be configured in a way such that it doesn’t discourage capable people from working.

    #1284664

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    People who receive benefits when they could be working instead are also not good for the welfare of the nation

    Would you tell that to the people learning in Kollel who depends on these benefits

    #1284783

    This isn’t about voting.

    #1285244

    big deal
    Participant

    Avram:
    Absolutely. There are a whole lot of people that are afraid to earn too much and lose the safety net. In NYS you can’t buy the benefits that you get for free on Medicaid.
    Someone I know calculated it and realized that if they were to go to work, they would lose $40,000 annually just from losing their benefits. (I don’t think they included copay and deductibles.)

    #1285253

    Joseph
    Participant

    Health insurance doesn’t cost $40,000, even if purchased by the consumer directly. Family health insurance costs the same whether it’s a two parent family with one child or a two parent family with ten children.

    #1285283

    Mammele
    Participant

    Joseph: they were most likely including SNAP, WIC, perhaps Section 8 and/school vouchers on top of Medicaid; which all adds up to a small fortune.

    #1285300

    big deal
    Participant

    Mammele: That’s right.

    #1285454

    kitov
    Participant

    Cutting entitlements is the third rail of politics.
    Trump and his party will voted out of office if he does that.

    #1285569

    Joseph
    Participant

    Welfare recipients aren’t highly motivated in actually voting. Reducing welfare doesn’t cause a net loss of votes. There are more non-entitlement recipients voting than entitlement recipients.

    #1285668

    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    AVRAM in MD-

    Im talking about a yungerman in kollel (who im pro) that can physically work and bh receive benefits. We live a mdinah of chessed, but to disprove of a president because of his move which is not an attack at all on kollel (rather a psik raisha maybe) is immature.

    I think you’ll agree with me that not everyone in kollel has the right to complain? its spoiled to do so

    #1285697

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Insurance premiums have skyrocketed since Obamacare was firs implemented and I know that the premiums on my plan have almost doubled in the last 6 years and the gross premiums have left $40,000 behind already. And that is with a decrease in the coverage. A plan with the same coverage would command premiums close to $60,000.

    #1285790

    Joseph
    Participant

    nisht, what kind of family health insurance costs $40,000 or $60,000 a year, per family?

    #1285998

    yehudayona
    Participant

    When I was on COBRA a few years ago, I paid over $1600 a month. I just heard a guy on radio say that he pays $2500 a month for family coverage. That’s $30K per year. With Trumpcare, somebody in their early 60’s with pre-existing conditions would almost certainly pay much more.

    #1286008

    yytz
    Participant

    M, he campaigned on a promise to help everyday people by bringing back jobs, not by increasing benefits. (He did promise not to cut Medicare, but I don’t think he said anything about Medicaid.) People shouldn’t be too surprised, because for the last few decades, whenever Republicans get elected, their #1 priority always seems to be to cut benefits to the poor (and increase military spending.)

    Interestingly, in Israel you don’t have to choose between a socially-conservative and economically-stingy party and a socially-liberal and economically-generous party, as we do here. Instead, all the religious parties (UTJ, Shas, Bayit haYehudi) are socially-conservative and economically-generous. (They’re not necessarily for a socialist welfare state, but they’re generally in favor of increasing benefits rather than cutting them.)

    #1286013

    (rather a psik raisha maybe)

    I don’t think it’s certain that Trump or his administration
    are aware of how things would affect kollel families.

    #1286020

    huju
    Participant

    Everyone considers him/herself “regular people.” That’s why politicians promise to help them.

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