December 16, 2012 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #607456YentaParticipant
Will our Yeahivas finally wake up and get security guards to protect our children from some madman like we saw this past Friday in Connecticut??
Our schools are “hefker”!!! Anyone can walk right inside. Hooray – we have cameras. Big deal. That won’t stop a terrorist or deranged phyco-path from shooting up a yeshiva.
We should DEMAND that every single Yeshiva have an armed security guard by the front door. Why are we sleeping at the wheel just waiting for a bloodbath R”L!!?!!?!?!?December 16, 2012 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #913718cantgetitMember
Hello! The school on Connecticut had all the security precautions… buzzers, intercoms, locked doors, etc.
The madman just shot his way in, defeating all the protections!!!December 16, 2012 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #913719ImaofthreeParticipant
yes, but they did not have armed security guards, like Yenta is asking for. I don’t think public schools have armed security guards either.December 17, 2012 12:09 am at 12:09 am #913720Torah613TorahParticipant
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I work for a yeshiva day school and although we have no security guard, the doors are all locked an bulletproof and you need to be seen on a video monitor to be buzzed in. I will say that many people are lax about checking ID and that bothers me, much more so now. I still can’t get over what happened Friday.December 17, 2012 12:29 am at 12:29 am #913722akupermaParticipant
But to admit that the goyim are meshuganahs who want to kill us would mean to admit the Israel argument that Jews aren’t able to safely live outside of Medinat Yisrael. Those Jews who feel that way have long since made aliyah.
While the argument is often made that the low rate of gun ownership and proficiency among Jews in America is a problem, the truth is that if we ever have to rely on shooting the goyim in order to survive in a country, it means its long best the date we should have left by. Contrary to zionist propaganda, Jews have always found the means to shoot back (or the equivalent before firearms were invented), but that once we start mowing down goyim, we run into the problem that they will always be better armed than we are.
One neds to remember that we are only visiting this world for the purpose of preparations, through Torah and Mitsvos. This isn’t the real world. That’s we refer to it as the “Olam
Tachlis: Consider the most serious act of violence against American Jews, which was the Crown Heights pogrom over twenty years ago. If we had starting shooting the goyim, be they the local Blacks carryout out the pogrom, or the New York City policemen standing watch to protect them, or assasinating those who were promoting or supporting the pogrom though deliberate malfeasance of duty (i.e. Al Sharpton, Mayor Dinkins, Governor Cuomo) – do you really think we would have been better off. The unfortuantely reality in this world, which is only a mere corridor not something we are stuck in permanently, is that we will always be stuck relying on our “smarts” and trust in Ha-Shem, but not in brute force.December 17, 2012 1:54 am at 1:54 am #913723mommamia22Participant
A security guard can walk away to use the bathroom. He, also, may not be able to monitor all the entrances that allow access into a school. I agree with your suggestion, but it isn’t foolproof alone.
I think schools have to have multiple layers of protection including security cameras with buzzers and guards.December 17, 2012 3:08 am at 3:08 am #913724A Sheep without a SpleenMember
Not to at all disparage the comment, but to cavalierly toss out our school’s money when our rebbeim are starving seems kind of cruelDecember 17, 2012 3:23 am at 3:23 am #913725
I am in 12th grade in a boys yeshiva in brooklyn. We are about 150 boys, and im sad to say but if this man would chas veshalom had tried this on my school, the result would be worse than what happened on friday. Our security policy : “everyone is welcome to barge into our doors and go wherever you would like in our building, but we have cameras!”. This story really scared me because you cant really get any less security than what we have in our yeshiva, and im sure this is the same case for many of the yeshivas around the area. something has to be done, and a student approaching the administration about this wont helpDecember 17, 2012 3:32 am at 3:32 am #913726
A Sheep without a spleen….You can’t say that having a security guard is throwing out yeshivas money which could otherwise benefit the rebbes. You would need to say the same for the computer classes, or the installation of security cameras or any other upgrade to the school. Part of opening up a school, be it a yeshiva or secular school requires certain necessities. Top notch security SHOULD be right up there with a good gemora curriculum.December 17, 2012 3:44 am at 3:44 am #913727N.GMember
The Jewish people in the government should do something.December 17, 2012 4:09 am at 4:09 am #913728mommamia22Participant
Better “starving” than c”v dead.
I doubt any rebbeim would think twice about extra security if the risk seemed real.December 17, 2012 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm #913729
I notice that the same people now saying that schools must be more restrictive about who they let in are the same who complain that schools are too selective who they admit.
All the pundits and even actors admit that the violence portrayed and glorified in movies, on tv and in video games have led to the ever increasing number of mass shootings, particularly by young people. And it is young people who seem to be involved in these terrible/ horrible school shootings. As students or past students in the school. On addition the “experts” lay additional blame on the break up of the family unit and family values.
Do you think it is not appropriate for yeshivas to prohibit movies, tv and such violent games? How can they not? On top of everything else it is a safety measure.
I can also understand that when there are limited resources they would prefer students from families that emphasize family values. (There is no greater measure of family values than following what is in the Torah).
The question is why are there schools that do not insist on these rules? The extra tuition charged dies not nearly cover the costs of the experts needed to try to mitigate the negative aspects of violence, profanity and vulgarity the students are being exposed to. These schools are not in better financial position even though their tuition is 5 times higher.
It is a wonder. These modern distractions do not seem in anyway to be an improvement.December 17, 2012 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #913730yaakov doeParticipant
Does anyone think that an armed security guard would have prevented Friday’s madman from entering the school? The doors were locked and he blasted his way in. Security guards are a help, but are not the answer to an armed assault on a school by a lunatic.December 17, 2012 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #913731gregaaronMember
Typical gut overreaction.
First of all, as many commenters pointed out, the gunman blasted his way in; having been in a Yeshiva where there is a security guard, I can tell you there’s no way he would’ve been stopped (especially considering the intelligence and physical state of many of the security guards that are out there).
Secondly, he was a teacher in the school’s son. Even had he been asked to shown ID, would he not have been allowed in?
Sorry, but Sheep w/o Spleen is right – better to use the money to bring the salaries of the Rebbeim and teachers somewhat in line with what they deserve than to blow it on useless and pointless “security” that exists only to make gullible people feel good.December 17, 2012 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #913732
Gregaaron, how can you believe what you just said? My school invested a good deal of money into redoing all of the windows so that they are now bulletproof, and we have a pretty fantastic lock down system. We do not hae a security guard which I think we should, but we are taking measures. This psycho who shot his way through was a terrifying monster but, have you ever heard of someone doing that? Other kind of predators exist too, and security should be beefed up because its 2012 and there are a lot of sick people in the world. A man was creeping around the back playground at my schoo last year, we could see him from one of the windows in my class, so the head master called the police, he was gone when they got there. If we disnt have gates that locked from the Inside, who knew if he could have snatched a kid and taken off into the woods. You should never skimp on security when it comes to your kids. The rabbis will keep on surviving on what they make now.December 17, 2012 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #913733DaMosheParticipant
The yeshiva that my kids go to keeps the doors locked. There is a security guard who needs to buzz you in, and he sits right by the door, so he can escort you somewhere if necessary.
If he’s not there, like if he’s using the restroom, you’ll wait. I’ve had to wait before to be buzzed in because he was away from the desk for a moment.
The school also has regular drills with the local police to know how to handle a shooter in the school.December 17, 2012 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #913734The little I knowParticipant
It is a far cry from having zero security to making a school into a lockdown, prison-like, hermetically sealed fortress. Neither option is good. And despite all efforts, keeping safe from madmen lunatics is simply impossible.
I feel that yeshivos should have cameras anyway, but the recent type of tragedy is not why. Just think for a moment – we can’t prevent tragedies, but we can at least catch the perptrator afterward. Now that’s a consolation. Now, I feel better.December 17, 2012 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #913735aurora77Participant
It is truly frightening how many sick people there are out there, as MorahRach noted. CNN is reporting that the Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms, Tobacco, and Explosives has confirmed that the mother recently took Adam Lanza to a gun range for target practice…I am trying to wrap my mind around someone doing this, when (according to Adam’s brother), the gunman had a personality disorder. I can’t understand this.December 17, 2012 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #913736mewhoParticipant
remember, armed guards costs money too.
everyone complains about the cost of tuition. add this to the totalDecember 17, 2012 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #913737
The perp did not commit these acts because of video games or movies. He committed them because he was sick and his mother kept firearms around the house.
He needed help which he unfortunaltly did not getDecember 17, 2012 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #913738
I can’t understand why she would take him shooting. Every murderer responsible for these mass killings , columbine, Newtown, Ohio , they were on some kind of medication to combat depression or mental disorders. Why on earth would his mother take him shooting?December 18, 2012 2:45 am at 2:45 am #913739
Now you are an expert and know what caused it? Because e perta all over say tht the exposure to violence is what causes this. Sure his mother took to shooting range, but that is shooting at targets. However the movies and video games glorify mass shooting and insane violence.
Your comment would make sense only if he never way he’d never watched violent movies or played video games. Have you verified that? And how?December 18, 2012 3:06 am at 3:06 am #913740
So tell us how did some learn to spit and throw bleach. They dont usually do that in moviesDecember 18, 2012 3:23 am at 3:23 am #913741
So that’s your answer? I guess it was another one of your assumptions that only made it a third of the way through the assumption.December 18, 2012 4:00 am at 4:00 am #913742simcha613Participant
For those who so ready to slash Rebbe’s salaries for more security, why don’t you suggest raising tuition instead? It’s okay for a Rebbe to sacrifice money for security but not the parents?December 18, 2012 4:22 am at 4:22 am #913743
simcha613- no one is saying to take it out of the rebbes salaries. There are tons of places to cut if the administration looks carefully at their spending. Not to mention that many schools DO charge a “security fee” with the tuition which could be around $750 and we are still left without any security guard or even a lock on the door. Ridiculous.December 18, 2012 4:35 am at 4:35 am #913744Ben LeviParticipant
Actually if you are busy cleaning a counter with a bleach and someone attacks begins to verbally assualt you and get aggresive it’s pretty instinctive to throw what in your hand, in other words, the bleach at the person.
And it’s also pretty universal that the way one shows disgust and revulsion at someone else is by spitting.December 18, 2012 5:29 am at 5:29 am #913745
Why do people keep talking about rebbes salaries? Although I agree with putting more money into security, why does it seem that teachers are nonexistent? In many yeshiva day schools there are more woman
/general teachers than there are rebbes. Just clarifying that.December 18, 2012 5:39 am at 5:39 am #913746🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Why on earth would his mother take him shooting?
There is no evidence that she did. It was something being looked into not verified.December 18, 2012 5:42 am at 5:42 am #913747🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
If anyone remembers Laurie Dann – we had armed guards for a while after that episode. It was cost prohibitive. The Jewish buildings in Chicago got homeland security money to upgrade all the windows, doors, cameras etc. That and the learning of the talmidim/talmidos should do it. Unless Hashem chooses otherwise. We can’t think of spending money we don’t have.December 18, 2012 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #913748truthsharerMember
I just want to chime in with a little anecdote of my own. When I was in high school, one kid brought in a gun to school. He brought it in to show us. We all snuck up to his locker and took a peek.
In hindsight, we were lucky because the guy was a crazy person.December 18, 2012 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #913749
If you are at a counter and a customer comes in and verbally assults you , you call the police. You DO NOT throw bleach on them, Its illegal.
In Europe most Shuls have armed guards watching them and you need permission to enter on Shabbos
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