March 12, 2012 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #602455chaimboruchMember
What is your take on walking behind a woman?
the halacha in Even Hazer Siman 21, says that it is assur.
I’m often confronted with a option, either walk right out in front of the lady, (and look rude) or try to be nice and let them go first- but then hope that they realize you are only being a mentch…
The same with holding a door open?
Is it right? what do the ladies expect? did they ever here of the halacha? do they care?March 12, 2012 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm #860267postalMember
My rebbi taught us we aren’t allowed to walk behind, or between, women or girls.March 12, 2012 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #860268
Mistama they rely on the Ritva which the Aruch Hashulchan brings l’halacha in 21:9.March 12, 2012 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #860269SaysMeMember
i can only answer for myself. Yes i know the halacha. I have asked my Rav a shaila on this too. What i do is to generally let men walk ahead of me, especially through doors. You can hold the door open behind you after you pass through. I have heard of girls dropping shidduchim when boys walked behind them, or waited for them to get in to close a car door. And i have heard of girls who dropped shidduchim because they found it rude and insulting when the boys did not. Many or most of those did not know the halacha. Personally, i wouldn’t think too hard :). If a boy knew the halacha, i’d prefer he went ahead. If he waited for me, i’d assume he didn’t know it, or didn’t know what to do, like you.March 12, 2012 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #860270☕️coffee addictParticipant
Go in front and hold open the door that wayMarch 13, 2012 1:01 am at 1:01 am #860271HaQerMember
Derech eretz kadma laTorah — the one who makes a living walks in front of the one who learns Torah…March 13, 2012 1:05 am at 1:05 am #860272LogicianParticipant
Agree with CA. You can do it in a way where its clear you are being respectful/caring etc.March 13, 2012 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #860273Sam2Participant
The Tzitz Eliezer has a T’shuva where he outlines when and why it might be okay if that’s what is considered Derech Eretz (the precise T’shuvah is about letting a woman onto a bus before you).March 13, 2012 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #860274ha ha ha haMember
you don’t have to walk directly behind a women walk to the side and behind i understand that that is fine.March 13, 2012 8:05 pm at 8:05 pm #860275gabieMember
What if the sidewalk is narrow? Who said that is fine?March 14, 2012 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #860277BTGuyParticipant
I usually try to move away or ahead depending on how much room there is to do so.March 15, 2012 1:23 am at 1:23 am #860279postalMember
You aren’t allowed to have an ongoing rear view of them walking, according to the S”A.March 15, 2012 2:10 am at 2:10 am #860280DFLMember
“What is your take on walking behind a woman?
the halacha in Even Hazer Siman 21, says that it is assur.”
there’s your answer. why does anyone’s ‘take’ make a difference?March 15, 2012 2:37 am at 2:37 am #860281
It makes a difference because at least two halachic sources have been cited as possible reasons that it might be okay. To continue arguing based on the Mechaber without looking up those sources just demonstrates that people aren’t seeking the truth, and are simply arguing for the sake of arguing. But that’s what we do here, I guess.March 15, 2012 3:45 am at 3:45 am #860282cinderellaParticipant
I posted this on another thread a while back. Different topic but it applies here too
“I have heard that some people prefer not to for tznius reasons. We see this in the Torah when Yaakov would travel with his family, his wives would travel in the back and when Eisav would travel, his wives would go before him. So, how could it be that Eisav respects his wives more than Yaakov?
A medrash brings down that Yaakov Avinu was doing it out of respect for his wives. It’s not tznius for a man to walk behind a woman and watch her walk.”March 15, 2012 11:00 am at 11:00 am #860283
yitay: Even those sources only discuss doing it in limited particular circumstances, not anytime across the board.March 15, 2012 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #860284
hershi – If what the Aruch Hashulchan writes can be applied to the general state of society regarding this situation, then it should apply across the board.March 15, 2012 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #860285
You can’t take what the Aruch Hashulchan said in limited circumstances and decide that society completely falls into that.March 15, 2012 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #860286
hershi – why not?March 15, 2012 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #860287
Who are you (respectfully) to make the determination that all of society falls into that? Especially as a change from the Aruch Hashulchan, who obviously determined all of society does not fall into that, as evidenced by his qualification.March 16, 2012 1:28 am at 1:28 am #860288
hershi – The burden of proof is not upon me. You are the one being ???? ??? on a large portion of Klal Yisroel; I am doing the right thing and speculating what grounds they might have for doing as they do. If you want to be ????? ???, you had better be pretty darn sure that there is no way that Ritva applies here.March 16, 2012 3:06 am at 3:06 am #860289
In the ’50’s and ’60’s in the U.S., there was a widespread disregard – due to ignorance – of the laws of Shatnez and mixed swimming. What sort of speculation would you engage in to find grounds for them doing as they did?March 16, 2012 6:02 am at 6:02 am #860290Avi KParticipant
The Tzitz Eliezer and Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach agree (they discussed this issue in correspondence) that the expression “paga ba bashuk” implies that this was a rare occurance in Chazal’s time. They thus learn that today one may be lenient if necessary. IMHO, in most large and mid-sized cities today one is anoos to do so, at least in business districts.March 16, 2012 6:39 am at 6:39 am #860291
I wasn’t around. If I had been, I probably would have engaged in some, until it were proven that they had no halachic basis for what they had been doing.
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