June 15, 2015 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #615839MameshhTov98Member
Wasn’t the Rebbe a Zionist?
After all, he did say ‘V’zechazena enaynu v’shuvecha l’Tzion v’rachamim’ three times a day …June 15, 2015 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #1087169FrozenThawMember
Which Rebbe? There are so many of them.June 15, 2015 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #1087170akupermaParticipant
There are very few zionist rebbes. If a rebbe was a zionist, he would demand the right to serve in the IDF. If fact virtually no one from a “rebbe” family, of any group, serves in the IDF. Some, such as the Lubavitcher (back when there was a Lubavitcher Rebbe, the last one died a generation ago), actively encouraged Jewish communities to continue in golus, sending people to build up communities inthe weirdest of places, thereby offering a credible alternative to zionism.June 15, 2015 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #1087171☕️coffee addictParticipant
are you smoking something
the lubavitcher rebbe was the most zionist of the rebbes, he was fairly close with all (if not most of) the prime ministers and netanyahu has a place in his heart for the lubavitcher rebbe
the reason he has shlichim throughout the world is to be mikarev frei people, not because of an alternative to zionismJune 15, 2015 10:33 pm at 10:33 pm #1087172
The Frierdiker Rebbe, the Rebbe Rayatz, said
The straight-thinking Jew looks on in astonishment, thinking: what do these rebels against G-d and His Torah have to do with the Land of Israel? (Mishmeres Chomoseinu 20 Shvat 5716)
I hereby join with the honored rabbis who oppose and protest against Mizrachi and the like. They do not walk in the spirit of the Torah. I wish to convey in writing that the Jewish people should separate themselves from this terrible desecration. Let the defiled leave the face of the Holy Land! (Om Ani Chomah, 5709 ch. 4 p. 400)
The Rebbe Rashab said
Whoever twists the meaning of the Torah and finds proofs to Zionism from the Torah, and especially from the Hidden Torah, is like one who places an idol in the Temple. G-d will not forgive him. May G-d in His great mercy remove this accursed doctrine from among the Jewish people, and inspire their hearts to repent to Him in truth. (Igros Kodesh, letter 130)June 16, 2015 8:24 am at 8:24 am #1087173BarryLS1Participant
coffee addict: 100% correct.June 16, 2015 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm #1087174akupermaParticipant
coffee addict: If the last Lubavitcher Rebbe was a zionist, why did he live in Brooklyn? Why did he struggle to build up Jewish communities in golus? Why did he not encourage his talmidim to serve in the army (the most he did was tell those in Eretz Yisrael who weren’t learning full time to allow themselves to be conscripted – a zionist would have told the ones in golus and in yeshivos to volunteer)?June 16, 2015 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #1087175☕️coffee addictParticipant
i answered why he struggled to build jewish communities in galus (kiruv)
i didn’t say he was a full zionist (i don’t think he said hallel on yom haatzmaut)
i said he was the most zionist of the rebbes
btw living in eretz yisrael doesnt make you a zionistJune 16, 2015 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #1087176June 16, 2015 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #1087177Avi KParticipant
Akuperma, the reason why he lived in Brooklyn is well known. In fact, he himself stated it. He worried that if he even went to visit Israel it might not have been permitted for him to leave and he thought that his presence in Brooklyn was needed. His views on EY were also well known. He ruled that it is completely prohibited to give land to a non-Jewish political entity.June 16, 2015 2:17 pm at 2:17 pm #1087178zahavasdadParticipant
Rav Yaakov Kamminetsky was also quite zionist and he even said Hashem didnt need the Satmar Rebbe’s permission to perform miracles in 1967June 16, 2015 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #1087179
zd: That’s a canard you’ve posted previously. Rav Yaakov said nothing like what you quote him as saying.June 16, 2015 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #1087180
Rav Yaakov Kamminetsky was also quite zionist
Rav Yaakov said that it was in reaction to Zionism that the Chofetz Chaim, in the 1890s, began to stress the study of Kodashim. (He wrote Likutei Halachos, started a Kodashim kollel, and taught Eizehu Mekoman to the unlearned kohanim in Radin.) That was the period of the first Zionist aliyah, and the Chofetz Chaim saw their goal, to establish an independent Jewish colony in Eretz Yisroel, as an implicit denial of the coming of moshiach and the complete redemption to be brought by Hashem. Therefore he taught the Jewish people to make a point of studying the laws of the service in the Beis Hamikdash, in order to reinforce the belief in moshiach. (Bimechitzas Rabbeinu, p. 31)June 16, 2015 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #1087181DaMosheParticipant
Joseph, R’ Yaakov definitely held that Israel regaining control of the Har HaBayit was a great thing. R’ Reisman shlita told over the story of how R’ Yaakov zt”l made a Shehechiyanu and began saying Hallel when the announcement came over the air that the Har HaBayit had been taken by the IDF. The story was also verified by R’ Dovid Landesman, a mechanech who lives in Israel, and was a student in Torah V’Daas at the time.June 16, 2015 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #1087182Sam2Participant
Joseph: Have you ever read that book? If half of the stories in it are good it does not mean good things for the Rebbe or for Yiddiskeit in general. I don’t believe a word in that book. It’s not a good source to quote.June 16, 2015 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #1087183yytzParticipant
The Lubavitcher Rebbe was quoted in one of his biographies as saying that he was not opposed in general to people making aliyah, and in some cases had encouraged Jews to do so.
However, generally he discouraged rabbis and other leaders from making aliyah if their services were needed in the local community in galus. The reasoning was that one should put the spiritual needs of others before one’s own.
As far as his political positions were concerned, he was 100% against any territorial concessions, because they would threaten Israel’s security. So he agrees with the far-right Zionists but not for “Zionist” reasons. The only party in Israel that conforms with that view is Bayit HaYehudi. However, at some point he told poeple to vote for the most charedi party. So I imagine some current Chabadiks vote for Bayit HaYehudi while others would vote UTJ or Shas.June 17, 2015 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #1087184HaLeiViParticipant
I don’t think being against giving back land has anything to do with Zioninsm/anti-Zionism. The Satmarer Rebbe was also against giving backthe land. He said that at this point it would be dangerous.
These seemingly conflicting anecdotes are only confusing for the binary-minded individual. I’ve mentioned here often that the classic approach of the Chareidi world was not this way or that. We had a problem with the group of founders, and perhaps even with the founding — at the time, and we don’t agree to all the ideological weight put on the state. But this is not about being anti-Zionist, it is more like non-Zionist.June 18, 2015 1:00 am at 1:00 am #1087185MammeleParticipant
Halevi: you do realize the distinction of giving back some land versus giving back the WHOLE LAND which Satmar Rebbe was against (sort of)? He actually said we need to Daven for Moshiach as that’s best solution but it doesn’t necessarily mean he’d oppose negotiations involving land like the Lubavitcher Rebbe did.June 18, 2015 2:10 am at 2:10 am #1087186HaLeiViParticipant
It’s called proving a point. I showed that what you think about giving back land does not prove what you think about Zionism. What the Satmar Rebbe would say about giving up some land, who knows? Rav Ovadya Yosef ZTL was, at first, in favor of the peace process. When he saw how the Arabs took it he changed his mind.June 18, 2015 2:16 am at 2:16 am #1087187MammeleParticipant
That’s why I prefaced it with a question. And I didn’t want anybody to misconstrue your argument for their Zionist propaganda regarding the Satmar Rebbe.
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