January 2, 2014 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #611737
Ariel Sharon’s doctors don’t think he will live for more than a few days.
Shouldn’t we daven for him? A Yid who ran the country and protected Am Yisroel as a leader, as well as in the Army?
Where is the Hakaras Hatov? Anone know his full name for tehillim?
Without getting into the discussion of whether we should daven for him, his name is Chaim Ariel ben Vera DevoraJanuary 2, 2014 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #997124popa_bar_abbaParticipant
It is quite awful what happened to him. He died without dying, so that by the time he dies nobody will really care because he was already dead for 10 years.January 2, 2014 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #997125
jewishness – if you ask based on his being a yid, I understand your question. if you are asking “where is the hakaras hatov for running the country” than you are either trying to stir up controversy, or you are disregarding the pain of a huge number of Israeli’s who lost everything they owned, and that question I don’t understand at all.January 2, 2014 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #997126Yserbius123Participant
While it’s always important to daven for a yid, let’s not forget that Ariel Sharon is far from a tzaddik. From cutting funding to Yeshivas and Chedarim in 2002 to failing to stop the Lebanese in murdering the residents of Sabra and Shatila in 1980, he’s no tzadik and certainly doesn’t deserve a shlita.January 3, 2014 12:10 am at 12:10 am #997128
I beg to differ.
Yserbius123: Of course he is not a tzaddik. He is still shlita since all that means is Sheyichyeh liyamim tovim aruchim (or something to that effect) I was saying that Ariel Sharon should live for many long days. I know that it is often used for a person whom the public considers holy, but literally its for anyone who you want to live long.
I am saying this because number one he is a Jew and number two he ran the country and kept millions of our brethren safe, as well as when he was a big shot in the army.
Yes, he did horrible things. I am not saying we should pray for him because of that. I am saying that no matter what he did, we can focus on the positive, which is that during the years that he was commander in chief, millions of people were protected by him. Certainly there is an strong element of Hakaras Hatov.
Think about it. The Torah commands “Do not despise an Egyptian, because you resided as foreigners in their country.”
Wow. They tortured the Jews. Why not hate someone who hurt you? The Answer is that the Torah is not focusing on that, its focusing on the benefit that you received from them. Because the good is not negated by the bad.
So we are being taught that the good done is not negated by the bad. At the end of the day, you received a benefit. Therefore because of hakaras hatov you can not hate an Egyptian. Imagine hearing that command about the German people?!
How many times more is this so regarding a leader of Israel who maintained a safe country for millions of Jews, despite the harmful things he did? Are there not millions of people who were protected by him? Any person who was, should feel duty bound to reciprocate.
Anyone know his name for Tehillim?January 3, 2014 12:30 am at 12:30 am #997130squeakParticipant
Sharon once kept Shabbos while in office – through Rabbeinu Tam zman – at the request of a bomb victim. Now he has kept Shabbos for 8 years straight. Tzaddik or no, he has huge zchusim per the gedolim http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/being-able-to-fargin-nature-or-nurtureJanuary 3, 2014 12:56 am at 12:56 am #997131
Jewishness – I hear your point but I don’t know that it holds for *Jews* who commit certain crimes against Jews. Perhaps it does.
Either way, perhaps you should be davening for him to have Hashem’s mercy, instead of a prolonged life, as he is no longer receiving the medical interventions that would be prolonging his life.January 3, 2014 1:43 am at 1:43 am #997132
Good point. Probably better than davening that he get well (since that seems against the natural way in this case) we should pray for Hashem’s mercy toward him.
I am sure that this applies to Jews as well since it has nothing to do with the person per se, it’s the concept of appreciating the good.
edited – this thread is not the place for thatJanuary 3, 2014 1:59 am at 1:59 am #997134
why is this thread not the place for that? Its a valid argument that has much to do with the topic of this thread.
I get the idea of editing out bad language or topics, but a discussion about people appreciating the good being edited – wow.
And if its off point? who cares? if you see a point being made in a thread that is off topic you edit it out? your sooo weird.
Thank you for your kind words and mature attitude. You opened a thread asking people to daven for someone on their deathbed. You did not proceed with a discussion about appreciating the good, as you claim. You wanted to mention how unfortunate it is that people have negative attitudes toward the IDF and officials etc. This is not the place for that. Start a new threadJanuary 3, 2014 2:00 am at 2:00 am #997135
Jewishness – I don’t see it as having anything to do with appreciating good, it is about understanding that Hashem is in charge and everything we do is on record. We will all be accountable for all our actions when we return our neshamos and most of us will be in need of mercy before the Heavenly Courts.January 3, 2014 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #997137HaKatanParticipant
Take it to another thread, old or new, there are plenty to chose fromJanuary 3, 2014 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #997138HaLeiViParticipant
Oh, ha ha. It literally means this or that. By the way, I’m a PhD in nuclear science. No, of course I didn’t get a degree, but if you break down the word, it literally mean someone who enjoys learning.
You can Daven for him is that he should get a chance to do Teshuva.January 3, 2014 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #997140YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
I am not comfortable making decisions about what is permissible to say or not say about a jew on his deathbed, regardless of who he was in his lifetime. This thread is closed. All anti-zionism and anti-the-anti-zionism threads can continue in the room next door.
- The topic ‘We must daven for Ariel Sharon shlita’ is closed to new replies.