January 9, 2013 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #607762
If someone wears a hat ONLY for tefilah (don’t wear it ouside shul at all!) is the hat considered like a kittel that cannot be worn in bathroom because it is used only for tefilah?
I am getting various opinions and even my LOR is on both sides of the fence!
(BTW – my name is Shoshana and it is a woman’s, does that make a difference?)January 9, 2013 11:42 pm at 11:42 pm #919081
My rebbe told me it’s allowed, but I forgot why.January 10, 2013 12:03 am at 12:03 am #919082Sam2Participant
It does not matter if you are a woman. Something Meyuchad for Davening has the status of Tashmishei Kedushah and therefore cannot be brought into a bathroom.January 10, 2013 12:26 am at 12:26 am #919083yaff80Participant
If you only wear it for davening, why is it different than a gartel?
(Although I once saw my neighbour wearing his gartel as he mowed his lawn!!!)January 10, 2013 1:46 am at 1:46 am #919084
My shul hat is like a gartel – LOLOLOL!!! Here’s the problem – if I can’t wear it to the bathroom, what do I do when I go to the washroom, since that is the hair covering (instead of a sheitel or head shmatte)???? Do I wear the hat or uncover my hair???January 10, 2013 2:02 am at 2:02 am #919085
Like i said, I got a psak that it is allowed lechatchilah. It is vaddai muttar if the alternative is to uncover your hair.January 10, 2013 2:27 am at 2:27 am #919086147Participant
If you wear you Tallis Kotton in the restroom, then Kal v’Chomer that you can wear your hat in the restroom.January 10, 2013 3:11 am at 3:11 am #919087
147, the problem with that logic is that a tallis kattan is not meyuchad for davening, whereas a tallis gadol is, and that’s why you can’t wear a gadol in the bathroom, but you may wear your kattan. The poshut pshat is that it needs to be a tashmishei kedusha that is also meyuchad for davening. A hat used for davening may be meyuchad, but it’s not inherently considered tashmishei kedusha. The kasha is from a kittel, but I’m not even 100% sure you can’t wear that in the bathroom – the OP claims that’s the case, and since I don’t wear one I’m not in a position to argue. Maybe a kittel is considered tashmishei kedusha because it’s used for burials? I don’t know…January 10, 2013 3:55 am at 3:55 am #919088
147, apparently the talis koton is not “meyuchas l’tefila” since it is worn all day, but my hat (or a gartel or kittel) is more choshuv because it is only worn for tfilah. Makes me wonder, if a person wears special shoes for tefilah, do they become like a gartel or kittel!?!January 10, 2013 4:52 am at 4:52 am #919089
Curiosity, is a hat covering hair not tashmishei kedusha since it serves a mitzvah of covering hair (and worn specifically for that purpose)?January 10, 2013 5:39 am at 5:39 am #919090
I am not exactly clear on what factors qualify something as tashmishei kedusha, so I am not speaking with any authority, but I can personally hear a qualitative difference between tzitzis, which is an actual chefetz of a mitzvah (ie: the Torah says “make tzitzis”) and a hair covering which facilitates a mitzvah (covering an ervah), but is not in and of itself a chefetz of mitzvah. To illustrate the difference, consider that there are various other ways of covering your ervah, (ex: you can shave your head or you can stay indoors and out of sight of men who are not your husband). On the other hand, the only way to be yotzei tzitzis is by wearing tzitzis. Again, I’m not an authority on the matter. Perhaps someone else can bring sources, proofs, or counter-proofs?January 10, 2013 6:02 am at 6:02 am #9190912qwertyParticipant
You only wear a hat for davening but you dont go home with it? Then why do you have a question about taking hat off for the bathroom?
Also, i noticed you have a new account. Congrats! You must be a very nice person because your second post was about defending schmendrik.
MOD NOTE: Yea….it’s him again. So sad. First he’s a woman, then comes back as a guy in Kollel, and now Shoahana…. Really sad.January 10, 2013 7:20 am at 7:20 am #919092Sam2Participant
Gornit: That probably doesn’t even qualify as a Tashmishei Mitzvah. There’s no Mitzvah to cover hair. Otherwise all women’s clothes and men’s underwear/pants would be Tashmishei Mitzvah. There’s a Chiyuv to not be Megaleh Ervah. On a separate note, the difference between Tashmishei Mitzvah and Tashmishei Kedushah is whether or not there’s a Sheim Hashem involved.January 10, 2013 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm #919093just my hapenceParticipant
2qwerty – See my response to gornit’s first post…January 13, 2013 2:42 am at 2:42 am #919094YW Moderator-42Moderator
I only wear my tie for davening on shabbos, does that make it holy? What if I also wear it for mincha, is it now a tashmishei aveira?January 13, 2013 3:06 am at 3:06 am #919095yaakov doeParticipant
Ridiculous question. If I can’t wear my Shabbos hat in the bathroom, then what about my Shabbos shoes, shirt, tie etc. Do some hats have keduusha that I’m not aware of?January 13, 2013 4:23 am at 4:23 am #919096WolfishMusingsParticipant
Ridiculous question. If I can’t wear my Shabbos hat in the bathroom, then what about my Shabbos shoes, shirt, tie etc. Do some hats have keduusha that I’m not aware of?
Not ridiculous at all.
You’re failing to make an important distinction. It’s not the fact that its your *Shabbos* hat or *Shabbos* shoes — its the fact that it’s your *tefillah* hat that’s at issue.
(Note: I don’t know what the actual halacha is and, as I don’t wear a hat, it doesn’t affect me one way or the other. I’m merely pointing out why Shabbos clothes might be different to some posters in this thread than clothes that are set aside for davening.)January 13, 2013 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #919097YW Moderator-42Moderator
Wolf, do you wear a hat when it is cold? That would be a mitvah of ushmartem l’nafshoseichem so maybe it’s a davar kadosh and should not be worn in the bathroom ^_^January 13, 2013 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #919098ukguyinEYParticipant
You actually really ARE allowed to wear a talis godoil in the bathroom. (We don’t because its not kovod but halachikly there is no problem).
That is the reason that one doesn’t make a new brocho on a talis godoil if you take it off in the middle of davening because it is not cosidered a hefsek because its mutar to wear it in the bathroom.
Whereas tefilin which is a dovor shebikdusha is ossur to wear in the bathroom and therefore if one tales them off in the middle of davening to go to the bathroom it is a hefsek and you will have to make a new brocho.
Therefore it comes out definetly halachikly there is no prob wearing a hat in the bathroom. And I don’t think there is a problem of kovod either.
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