Wedding or house?

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  • #595898

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    If your parents offered you this deal; you must choose between:

    A. A normal wedding for your circles.

    B. A small wedding in the shul, and a 50k downpayment on a house.

    Which would you choose?

    And I guess the follow up is, if you would choose the house, how can you ask your parents to take out a second mortgage for your wedding?

    #752425

    deiyezooger
    Member

    Whats about all the expensive wedding gifts?

    How can a chusen wear a $2,500 gold watch knowing that someone alse paid a months wages for it? cant he wear a nice fifty dallor one?

    How can a young kallah light shabboss candles with a $1500 siver candle sticks that someone alse is having a heart attack paying for it? cant she light a in a nice $30 crystal set?

    #752426

    yogibooboo
    Member

    my mother only bought a watch for my husband way after we were married and it was a nice one for like $25. only after 8 months of marriage did my husband get a shas that I not anyone else I paaid for! I bought him his tallis and tallis bag. He bought me all my jewlery after we were married when HE could afford it! Also, I didnt get candlesticks fom my MIL. I wanted it from my HUSBAND and he bought them for me! No they are not Silver which is fine they are pewter and unique and guess what? I dont have to ever polish them! the only thing that my in laws paid for was my rings and thats because they are friends with the jewlers and got a really great deal(like a quarter of the price it shouldve been). WE did everything. I bought 2/3 of my sheitals and my husband bought the other after we were married. WE didnt ask mommy or daddy to pay for anything that was considered a gift for us. They paid for the wedding and that was it. Even then, we paid for the benchers and invitations and videographer. Again, it was US and not Mommy and Daddy!

    #752427

    So, are we going to get a group of 10 engaged couples, or singles, and have them to be the first to buck the trend. Start a new one. The reality is, a smaller wedding can be so much more meaningful. And certainly, less jealousy and aiy hora.

    The kabbolas ponim can still be a big thing, without food, or there can a larger dance, either in a separate hall. But the wedding can be a small, very nice and warm occasion. The way most of our great grandparents got married, for many generations. And thankfully, those weddings produced us!

    #752428

    TheGoq
    Participant

    monty ill take whats behind curtain #3

    #752429

    deiyezooger
    Member

    yogibooboo; I’m sure you feel so much pride when using what you worked for yourself.

    #752430

    aries2756
    Participant

    People have already come up with a plan. They invite their nearest and dearest for the dinner and the rest either to the chupa or simchas chason v’kallah. It has become perfectly acceptable to do so.

    #752431

    flyer
    Participant

    I actually was not so interested in a big wedding. My mohter wanted the big wedding and everything with it. And she is entitled to it. I am sure there are many girls who would take a smaller wedding if given the choice ( at least in my days it was). Many weddings are how the parents want it – it is not just the kids

    #752432

    s2021
    Member

    wow Im so impressed!I would 4 SURE take the house but my parents probly wouldnt let me… wierd no?

    #752433

    yogibooboo
    Member

    deiyezooger-yes i actually do! and my husband does also.

    #752434

    Ofcourse
    Member

    This question doesnt makes sense!

    Lets do simple math.

    The most expensive of wedding costs is the hall/caterer.

    The average catered wedding, these days, costs about 70 dollars a couple. An expensive more glitzy hall costs about 110 dollars a couple. Thats a 40 dollar per couple difference. The average wedding has about 250 couples.

    Whats 40 dollars X 250??? Total difference is $10,000. Even with the difference of flowers and music costs, its nowhere close to $50,000 for a down payment. Unless you want to avoid a wedding hall altogether and get married in your backyard or a public park. OK, thats really gonna take off….. Suuuuuuuerre. Hee hee.

    #752435

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    of course: yes, that is what the OP said. “A small wedding in the shul”.

    #752436

    illogicgal
    Member

    OfCourse – I think you are underestimating the #’s by an awful lot. There are wedding packages nowadays in a limited amount of halls for approximately $10-15K, but that is only in a small less-than-handful of halls. I know first hand, having run the numbers for weddings, that it is usually much costlier, & I’m not speaking about the finest of everything (one-man band, silk flowers or Gmach,limited liquor, etc.)

    Re: the question — this is a no-brainer for me. The Down Payment of course. I also viewed it as:

    Why put on a show, feeding the world (most of whom you don’t really care about) the finest of meals (that they won’t remember the following day), cause stress to those who are picking up the tab, and then move into a leaky basement or an apartment with no growth, where YOU end up stressing to pay rent OR

    Get married simply, with the goal of “getting married” in mind, forget about what the yentas will say, forget about satiating the food-dwellers, cut costs & save money so that you don’t end up being short-changed or broke the following day.

    One of the most important rules I learnt re: making a simcha from my parents is: don’t make a simcha depending on the gifts you’ll get.

    Lastly, I commend & admire your outlook, yogi. It’s extremely healthy & I’m sure your mom, who sacrificed for you, is incredibly proud.

    #752437

    PBA – I love debating this question and I have many times over. The conclusion is inevitably the same: All the married couples say they wish they had done it (meaning take the down payment instead of the fancy wedding), while the single/engaged people can’t understand why.

    I usually don’t pose it as strongly though, more along the lines of a cheaper wedding vs. whatever the difference would be towards a house. Small wedding in a shul is pretty extreme.

    #752438

    golden mom
    Member

    Ofcourse there r a lot more expensive then music and flowers. Video pics makeup which could cost up to $100 a face hair done…liquor gowns rentals could cost a few hundred each if not from a gemach and the list goes on and on

    And the young couple needs more things in the house then anybody has cuz the stores will close the day after sheva brochos. Spend thousands on “setting up the house” (not incl furniture)

    #752439

    Ofcourse
    Member

    I still say NO ONE (ok, hardly anyone) who has enough money to offer each child $50,000 for a down payment, will be willing to make a small wedding.

    They run in too uppity circles to consider it. They’d be humiliated in their social settings. Halevei parents would give the $50,000 down payment instead of the fancy wedding! Imho its the better investment.

    #752440

    deiyezooger
    Member

    “Small wedding in a shul is pretty extreme.”

    its only extream because its not the standard, a kiddush is in shull a bar mitzvah in many places is in shul so is a bris, and nobody thinks its extream. And btw in many comunnities in Europe the chupah is still in the shull yard as it was for are grandparents in pre WWII.

    #752441

    In my circle/community,the bigger the wedding the better. Weddings by us cost upwards of a hundred thousand dollars. This is the norm. The hall by itself that is the ” in” place is at least 50G for the most basic package.

    There is no way DH and I can afford to do that for our daughters,who are young still,but I am still thinking about it.

    I proposed an idea to DH and my family,only to get yelled at from all sides. Simply put,I would make the wedding at the “in” place,but on a Sunday afternoon,and serve only desserts. My thinking is why should I put myself in debt so that “the people” can eat steak,and lamb chops and whatnot.

    Husband and in laws,and family said to me to stop taking like that,because lest the word come out that I don’t want to do a wedding,my girls will not get “good” suitors,

    I’m still not falling for it. My girls ate great,they will get what is good for them. No??

    Husband says not true,he knows many,many stories in which guys were told about a particular nice girl and were all gung-ho to go out with her,but when the prospective father in law told the young man about his making a scaled down wedding,the young men,ALL said no and wouldn’t even meet the girl. DH said he knows f at least 3 guys this happened with.

    So what are young families to do?? We hold back on things when they are young so we can save up for thier wedding,so that the guests can et a good meal and they can get a groom.

    Makes perfect sense,right???

    I’m willing to do the dessert thing,even at a different ” not in” place.but my community unfortunately won’t hear of it.

    #752442

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    I wanted to have a small wedding in a shul in Venice but I was turned down.

    Popa, what about parents who can’t afford either?

    #752443

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    A wedding is the simcha of the Parents, not of the couple.

    #752444

    tomim tihye
    Member

    OC:

    Some people have the money put away, but other don’t know.

    They don’t run in “uppity circles.” They live very simply.

    They make warm Chasunas in the most inexpensive halls available.

    Then their kids buy homes, and everyone wants to know where the down payment comes from.

    #752445

    Sacrilege
    Member

    Ofcourse

    Let me know where you got those figures from… I think many people would love to make their weddings there!

    Average not fancy is about 75 a person 150 a couple.

    #752446

    anon1m0us
    Participant

    I wanted to get married in front of the Kosel. I told that to my mother and she almost died. I explained, it was cheaper flying my family (only siblings) to Israel than to make a big wedding. However, she wanted her party. As I once said, I was just a guest, the wedding was a night for her to shine:) What would the neighbors think? etc. I feel wasting tens of thousands of dollars for one night is ridiculous! I also would not want to have a wedding in a shul. I would want it in a more meaningful place, like the Kosel.

    #752447

    aries2756
    Participant

    I agree with flyer, lets take the blame off the “kids”. Kids don’t ask for a huge wedding, only that their friends are there. They don’t have 250 couples, they usually have 10 to 15 couples. The rest are the parents’ guests. The kids want a dance floor so the wedding is lebedig. Other than that they don’t get involved in the hall. Again that is the parents’ business. So lets address the adults here. Whom are you trying to impress, seriously.

    Why do you have to make the wedding of YOUR dreams? Why do YOU have to invite everyone you know and then some? Why do YOU have to top your sister, neighbor and friend in shul? Or even try to do the same thing? Look at your own finances and how close your own next simcha is and stay within your own budget. Go to a gmach for gowns if you can’t afford to buy them. Use less expensive flowers if you want real ones or go to a gmach that arranges to get flowers from a simcha the night before. Invite only the have to’s and leave the want to’s for the chupa or dessert. Although the music is very important the pictures are the only thing that lasts forever (along with the marriage) so invest where it is important to invest. And NO it is not necessary or even important to keep the liquor flowing. You don’t need an open bar. Wine is enough you don’t have to serve alcohol which is again a huge expense. You don’t have to have 10 hot dishes at the smorg but do keep in mind that people are coming hungry from work, and you should feed them.

    You don’t have to serve a 5 course meal, and chicken will do. You also don’t have to give out fancy benchers. You can use standard tablecloths and dishes. And guess what, no one will remember. They will only remember how amazing the Choson and Kallah were.

    #752448

    tomim tihye
    Member

    Esther:

    I’m familiar with the wedding scene in your circles. It must be very difficult for those who want to keep up with all the other Cohens but can’t afford to.

    I think the schools should give the caterers outstanding tuition bills to be enclosed with the caterer’s bill.

    #752449

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    SJS: I’m not suggesting that a house be the norm; I’m just highlighting the stupidity of spending so much money on a meal that everybody leaves before it is served.

    #752450

    aries2756
    Participant

    TT, why are the caterers at fault? They deserve to make a living the same as everyone else. They have expenses as well. Just because the price is high that doesn’t mean they are making a fortune. Shop around and choose a caterer and a venue you can afford.

    If you want a fancy wedding then you have to pay the price. Why should YOU be treated like a Queen if you don’t want to pay for it? If you want ordinary prices then realize that YOU are an ordinary person that can’t afford extraordinary frills. Its as simple as that. If you pay $10,000 for a Kleinfeld gown, then why should the caterer have rachmonus on you? Or the band or the photographer for that matter? Keep it simple all the way around and you won’t go overboard. Go overboard and you will drag everyone with you.

    I have been to many a plain wedding with silk flowers in a small hall with a cold smorg, etc. And guess what? The couple are still married, with a beautiful family!!!! Isn’t that the point????? I have also been to these fancy weddings where the parents blew $50,000 and upwards on a wedding that didn’t last a year. Guess what it had nothing to do with the kids. It was a beautiful, enchanting evening out for my husband and me, and all my friends at the expense of the hostess. It could have been a holiday get away, or a vacation with a dress up night, or a fancy ball, a presidential dinner, or whatever but again, it had very little to do with the bride and groom.

    #752451

    Diet Coke
    Member

    I paid for my wedding myself i did it the cheapest way possible and it still cost me almost 50k

    #752452

    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    I know a guy who got married at the Botanical Gardens. No “shmorg” and everyone took a bus up to Crown heights for the meal.

    #752453

    aries2756
    Participant

    DC, I am sure that you did it he cheapest way possible for you, according to your likes and dislikes. But I have made weddings that didn’t cost me that much and I was just involved in a wedding for one of my “kids” that has been together with me for 8 years and it didn’t cost him that much. It cost him a little over $20,000.

    Again, it depends on the venue, the caterer, how much you budget for flowers, music, photography, liquor, and how many guests you invite. If you can’t afford 400 guests, then don’t invite them. I just told a relative of mine that whoever didn’t come to the last wedding, remove them from the guest list v’gamarnu. That is how you chisel down your list. Stop inviting people because you were once friends with them. Don’t invite everyone in the shul because you say good Shabbos to them. How many times do you get an invitation and you have to figure out who the people are? How many times do you get an invitation and you wonder why they invited you. How many times do you feel obligated to go to a simcha but don’t really want to go and cut out at the very first opportunity. Well guess what others feel the same way, so take a good hard look at your list and make sure the people you invite truly want to participate.

    #752454

    Diet Coke
    Member

    aries2756

    is that with filing up the apt?.

    #752455

    lammed hey
    Member

    Personally, I would like to know what Jewish&Working22 thinks about the question.

    #752456

    TheGoq
    Participant

    sounds like mostly its momzillas not bridezillas

    #752457

    Ofcourse
    Member

    Sac, there are a couple of places that Im pretty sure are close to my average wedding prices.

    1-Viznits off 18th ave in BP,

    2-Bais Mordechai near Avenue C,

    3-the new place off 13th Ave on 38th street (Ateres Something?), thats really nice.

    Im sure there are more. Does anyone know the prices per couple at these halls?

    #752458

    aries2756
    Participant

    Weddings and setting up a home are two different things.

    Setting up a home can also be done on a budget. You can budget your linens and buy on sale. I bought linens for my “daughter” an amazing your woman who I have mentored for 8 years, on-line for a fraction of the price I would have spent in a local store. I also found her furniture that others were giving away. We didn’t spend anything on furniture except for a leather couch that my husband paid for. Her parents paid for her mattresses. As far as other things, we collected things on sale and used coupons. He parents and friends helped shop for her and she was careful not to go overboard. And no, when you first get married you don’t need vochadik and Shabbos dishes. You can make do for a long while. There are a lot of things you can buy of quality on the cheap if you put an effort into it. Furthermore when you are on a budget you have a real awakening as to what you really need versus what you would like to have.

    If your parents are not in a position to take you on a spending spree, then don’t fret. It can be done.

    #752459

    aries2756
    Participant

    Ofcourse, my niece just got married at Tiferes Mordechai. To tell you the truth I didn’t love it because it is not up to MY standards. But it was fine. It is pretty. It was clean and the food was excellent. It is small and there are things they need to work on, but the problem was NOT really with the caterer it was with the baalas simcha. She invited too many guests and did not have enough seats for them because the Hall and caterer does not allow for it. HER head was on her previous weddings yet her budget was on this one. So again, the onus is on the parents.

    #752460

    Ofcourse
    Member

    aries, Viznits, a very decent hall, accomodates a big crowd and I think theyre reasonable to begin with and especially reasonable on Thursdays. Anyone know the price per couple at Viznits?

    #752461

    msseeker
    Member

    Esther, leave that community. ??? ??? is very important. To live so lavishly in these difficult times when our brothers are struggling to put bread on the table is selfish and insane. (As a bonus, you’ll get a good seat on Purim.)

    #752462

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    How did my beautiful idea of getting married in shul, which is a place of kedusha, turn into a discussion of which halls are less than 50k?

    (And if you are interested, the cheaper halls in NY are: Concord, Ateres shlomo, Orion Palace, Marina del ray)

    #752463

    ( :

    #752464

    The house! It will last a long time, the wedding will encompass about 6 hours (that includes getting made up and photography). We made a wedding at Tiferes Mordechai, and were more then happy with it. But most important, the Chossan & Kallah are having a happy life together. Our community has gotten so out of focus.

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