April 30, 2020 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #1855641Reb EliezerParticipantMay 1, 2020 12:28 am at 12:28 am #1855690
L’maaisa, are most American chasanim and kallahs who got engaged prior to corona and already had a wedding date going through and getting married? Or are a large number postponing their wedding, hoping that they’ll be able to make a bigger event after corona starts fading and things return closer to how thing were previously?
Secondly, are engagements being postponed in the hope of a later wedding will result in a bigger wedding?May 1, 2020 1:17 am at 1:17 am #1855717
I don’t know statistics, but I do know that all the rabbonim paskened at the start of this crisis that weddings for which a date has already been set should not be postponed, and should be held with a bare minyan. (R Hershel Shachter has even been mattir holding the chupah without a minyan, and therefore without sheva brochos, but I don’t think most poskim agree with him.)May 1, 2020 8:13 am at 8:13 am #1855743
I read it. It seems like there was an intense experience of true simchah. We still need to figure out what a jewish wedding is like. And, how the Torah looks at marriage. Now is definitely atime to focs on unruly behavior by our funerals. I always wondered why the Rabbonim spoke against hefkerus by chasunos, as opposed to levayos.May 1, 2020 8:14 am at 8:14 am #1855747Reb EliezerParticipant
This remrnds me of a Binah Leitim explaing the MIdrash that Hashem asks us to make with Him a small meal (sacrifice one ox) on Shemini Atzeres after the goyim have all those oxen for Sukkos. When there is a big meal, the food becimes important because people are involved in consuming the food and not in showing friendhip and love to each other. Whereas at a small meal, the food is secondary. Hashem has a big sacifice by the goyim being kavayochel distracted by the big meal but by the Bnei Yisroel the importance becomes the show of love and friendship to each other.
Similarly, as the letter states and describes a small wedding because of COVID-19 where the true meaning of the wedding is being recognized without any outside distractions.May 1, 2020 8:17 am at 8:17 am #1855752GadolhadorahParticipant
What is the big deal about either postponing the chassanah until later this summer when its fairly obvious that the most stringent rules on gathering s will be relaxed or simply having a barebones ceremony now under the distancing guidelines with just the chasan/kallah/rav and eidim and then hold the big party later when the Simcha halls reopen.May 1, 2020 8:17 am at 8:17 am #1855753commonsaychelParticipant
@Joseph all of the above
@millhouse, no one but him holds that way, the chosen, the two aidus and misadre kidusshin, that means 6 more people, not that hard to find 6 willing peopleMay 1, 2020 9:19 am at 9:19 am #1855802
common: All of what above?
Gadol: A person who is scheduled to be married is not supposed to delay his marriage.May 1, 2020 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #1855966KilaolomchasdoParticipant
This reminds me of a story my rebbe told me once. My rebbe once had to attend a more modern type of simchah (can’t remember if it was a bar mitzvah or wedding), with lots of fancy lights and all of that. All of a sudden some (if I recall correctly) non-frum jew comes to him and says, “Rabbi, you Yeshiva guys don’t need the fancy lights and loud music. You guys have RUACH!”
The story truly is beautiful, but even if we scale down the weddings and all (which we should), lemaisah it’s important to note there’s still a mitvah to be sameiach the chosson and kallah, and we shouldn’t have these weddings be EXACTLY the same way after this blows over. I mean, I imagine even in the shtetl in Europe people were able to dance with their closest friends/family members!May 3, 2020 7:40 am at 7:40 am #1856159
If the discussion is about having a smaller or cheaper event, we know the results. It was attempted for two decades. For people who just go along with things, they call the hall or caterer and go from there. Those who innovate, will. Some will set expensive trends, and some will create better options. All those who need to follow or out do the next person, will only look at those who innovate flamboyant weddings. Though there is a chance that homemade weddings could become popular, in time they would be even more expensive than halls and caterers.May 4, 2020 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #1856861bsharg2Participant
Weddings in Gaza have increased 60% since March. When the coronavirus restrictions closed wedding halls, people took advantage of the opportunity to have smaller weddings at home and save money. People who had been planning to marry this summer in wedding halls moved their wedding date sooner, to do it now, so they could save money. Quite frankly, it is upsetting that the terrorists are going to have a big population boom.
Frum Yidden should look at the Simcha Initiative, think about how meaningful it would be to have a smaller, simpler simcha, and also not put your family in debt.May 4, 2020 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #1856903
Our eldest grandson is engaged and was supposed to be married right after Shavous. All plans for the big wedding of the Kallah’s dreams have gone out the window. Mrs, CTL and I offered a wedding in our gardens for immediate family and a few very close friends with proper social distancing.
We have hosted a number of weddings here including our youngest daughter a couple of years ago.
The couple has decided to take us up on our offer.May 5, 2020 12:18 am at 12:18 am #1857034
Common, the bare minimum without a minyan is only 3 men, since the mesader kidushin can be one of the eidim. (In fact in some communities the rov and the chazan were traditionally the ediim at all weddings.) So to make up a minyan you would need 7 more.
And indeed most poskim do hold that you can’t have a chupa without sheva brochos, and therefore you do need a minyan. But there must be some who agree with R Hershel Shachter that bish’as had’chak you can skip the sheva brochos and it’s not called כלה בלי ברכה. At the very least, most of his many talmidim probably accept his psak.May 6, 2020 9:33 am at 9:33 am #1857578commonsaychelParticipant
“most of his talmidim probably accept his pask”, well your not a talmid if you don’t follow your rebbis pask, and you wrote MOST and PROBARLY meaning that you don’t know for sure.
So I stand by what I said, no one besides him [ and “probably most” of his talmidim] hold this way.May 6, 2020 10:23 am at 10:23 am #1857650
Common, R Schachter’s rebbe, R YB Soloveichik, was famous for saying that a rov has to make his own decisions and NOT simply follow his rebbe’s opinions. Of course it’s possible that R Schachter disagrees with that opinion :-), or that many of his talmidim do :-),May 6, 2020 11:42 am at 11:42 am #1857675
WADR, MO rabbinic opinions generally carry no weight in the larger Yeshiva world.May 7, 2020 12:11 am at 12:11 am #1858087
Joseph, no respect is due that statement. The opinions of the “larger” yeshivah world (במנין perhaps, but not בחכמה) are irrelevant.May 7, 2020 1:14 am at 1:14 am #1858101
Milhouse – which statement? And why irrelevant? Who is greater בחכמה and why do you so believe?May 7, 2020 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #1858395
The statement that immediately preceded it, of course. And the “larger yeshivah world” is no wiser than the MO yeshivos.May 7, 2020 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #1858434
Hmmmm……….. The OU is accepted almost everywhere……… MO Rabbis sold most of the chometz eaten today in the U. S. ………….. There is much less of a divide than a sliding scale…….. Keep up the debate! It is very important to determine who is more accepted, because Avraham Avinu and Moshe Rabbeinu were both outcasts.June 1, 2020 9:50 am at 9:50 am #1866384
B”H my grandson was married in the CTL compound gardens last evening. Two days prior CT Governor Lamont raised the limits on outdoor ‘religious, spiritual and social gatherings’ to 150 people.
No dancing was possible due to the six foot social distancing requirements among non-immediate family members. We were able to take family photographs of the Chosson with his immediate family, the Kallah with hers and the Chosson/Kallah together after the Chupah.
Since the gathering limit was lifted with little notice only those family members and closest friends within driving distance attended.
There was no way to ramp up the catering order with no notice, so Zaidy raided his freezers and put the BBQ pits and smokers into high gear.
A good time was had by all……….Mazel TovJune 1, 2020 10:26 am at 10:26 am #1866411
Mazal Tov CTL & Mishpacha!!
Why couldn’t immediate family (only) dance with each other?June 1, 2020 12:50 pm at 12:50 pm #1866505
actually they could have danced with each other, but when we made the arrangements the limit on attendees/staff was 49 people so we did not engage musicians or a DJ. One of the Kallah’s brother played his clarinet after the Bedecken and proceeding to the chuoah and a few tunes afterwards.
It was tough ti pull off the changes as the Governor’s relaxed Executive was issued on Shavuos. I read it in the local paper which is delivered to our front door each morning, but we could not call or text or email anyone not staying in the compound until Motzei Shabbos. It required an immediate yes or no response so we could go to the next person in the list.
I got to work on the additional food and beverages. A few of our close by non-Jewish neighbors volunteered to schlep and help set up and break down the chairs, tables, etc. and help serve the meal.
Because we have a vine covered 12×20 pergola the Chupah was in place and covered with flowers in bloom.
I think the family and close friends were so relieved to have such a simcha and be out of confinement that the dancing was not missed. So many of the relatives had not seen each other in months that much time was spent visiting, without the usual problem of not being able to hold a conversation because of the too loud music in a wedding hallJune 2, 2020 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #1866997
Since Shavuos, are Chasunas being conducted in Boro Park, Williamsburg and Lakewood?
What limitations on their size are actually being adhered to?
What other limitations on dancing and other activities are in place?
Are they being conducted in the regular local Chasuna halls?June 5, 2020 8:17 am at 8:17 am #1868226skripkaParticipant
@Joseph Weddings in Boro Park are going on, but surreptitiously and very, very be’deieved, By way of an example, a wedding hall operator (3 halls) asked a cousin of mine for a list of the 50 men and 50 women they were planning on inviting (The musician, photographer, etc are included in that count) the hall makes the inquiries to see if those people are the type to cause “problems”, and the hall calls them (and you) about an hour before the wedding to tell you which of the 3 halls the wedding will be in. At a determined time, guests have 15 minutes to go into the hall, after which the gates are closed until the end of the wedding (8 oclock). The Kallah forgot something? too bad. Chosson forgot the ring? sorry, borrow from someone else. The priceworks out to about 280 a couple.June 5, 2020 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #1868448bsharg2Participant
smaller but at least its much cheaper!June 5, 2020 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #1868481
skripka: 50 men + 50 women from each of the two sides (for a total of 200) plus the band, photographer, caterer, waiters?
What’s New York City’s current legal limit, today, for maximum wedding size?
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