July 27, 2013 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #610176
Im just wondering what everyone thinks is the most important part of a song and why? Is it the niggun or melody? Is it the majestic voice of the singer? Is it the lyrics that manage to touch us in places nothing else can?????
If so what part of the lyrics is most important, the bridge? Chorus? The rest?????
In my opinion, these days Jews are more interested in a good voice than the actual niggun or words. I mean the singer should have at least a decent voice, but why should you appreciate some music better than other just cuz the singer is AMAZING and the other sings pretty good.
I believe the lyrics are the most important part, they can make us happy or sad or want to dance, as being a songwriter myself I think its a great outlet and is the main part of a song. But if one day I was actually able to write songs for a CD, and I wouldn’t be able to get a very known singer, would that mean even if my songs are better than others (lets say IF, I doubt they are seeing my age) less people would listen to them???????July 28, 2013 3:16 am at 3:16 am #969136Torah613TorahParticipant
Words, words matching melody, melody.July 28, 2013 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #969137
Ya but WHY?July 28, 2013 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #969142
I love lyrics, lyrics are where I connect with the song. I also enjoy a melody that I can connect to. I enjoy certain styles of melodies more than others. A good chorus is always wonderful and I like big notes. I really enjoy good k’vetchy songs. I’m into many different styles of music, but I listen to the words and that’s what gets me. I think that’s why I’m not enamored with the Beatles, for the most part they just sound like nonsensical ramblings of spun out druggies.
Also, in regards to Jewish music most of the time the lyrics are divrei kedusha, so usually the lyrics are quite meaningful and an amazing vocalist can take them to the next level. What a talented singer can do to a song should not be discredited. In the Jewish music industry, 90% of song making is composing the melody because the words are already written. So when you’ve composed a beautiful melody you’re obviously going to look for the RIGHT singer to do it justice. Certain vocalists are perfect for some songs that other singers couldn’t bring to their full potential. Yes, if a less popular singer performs your song, chances are less people would hear it. I think that’s pretty basic.
In this case, you’re misspelling made something unclear. “a goof voice” I thought you were making fun of the electronic voices certain producers are fond of. Please make an effort, I do.July 28, 2013 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #969143jewishfeminist02Member
It depends on the song.July 28, 2013 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #969144oomisParticipant
I always connect first with the melody. How many of us hum a beloved nigun and don’t actually know the words? Some songs have words that are so powerful that they MUST be heard and understood. But for me, the power of the song is in how the melody grabs me and resonates with me. For some reason, I always LOVED “daagah minayin.” I never could quite catch the words, but the tune made me want to jump up and dance. When I hear a recent “Im Eshkacheich,” even though I totally know the words, some of the melodies for it make me become emotional more than others. Same song, same words, different nigun.July 28, 2013 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #969146
OI : i meant good not goof. Anyway, there are plenty of jewish songs with good lyrics, i particularly like Chanale and Ari Goldwag’s songs. Plus lyrics are practically the same things as poems, i just noticed this, but i tend to think of them both as songs since when i read poems i automatically make up a tune for it. Making up tunes and Ryming words i have been doing since i was little, i hadnt realized what i was doing was actually writing songs till last year.
if you want good poems, there is a poetry thread here and classic.frumteens has TONZ of poems written by teens (im sure the poems are okthere because the girls arent asking for advice and stuff, they are putting out art) a few of my favoeites from frumteens i plan to repost in the poetry section to do them justice and more people will see.
I guess that a niggun is also moving, but is probobly more favorable for a boy since boys and men dont talk about there feelings and express themselves with words like women do. That must be why woman appreciate the lyrics more often.July 28, 2013 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #969147
Outside of the chassidishe world, most yeshivish men could not name more than maybe 2 niggunim, and I think I’m being overly generous. I’m not looking for poetry, thank you. The passukin and passages chosen for songs were written far better than any modern lyric. I was simply commenting that in the Jewish music industry lyrics typically don’t play as big of a part in producing a song, and thus the talent of a vocalist plays an extremely large factor. This was in response to your (snide?) comment, about Jews caring about having only an AMAZING singer.
Thank you for the more coherent response. It is appreciated.July 28, 2013 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #969148popa_bar_abbaParticipant
location location locationJuly 29, 2013 1:51 am at 1:51 am #969149Torah613TorahParticipant
Why? Because that’s what I like about songs, in order.July 29, 2013 2:51 am at 2:51 am #969150rationalfrummieMember
I’m with popa. it’s all about WHERE you’re singing the song. the tune, words, and singer could be terrible, but if you’re listening to a song, and then suddenly find a free parking space in manhattan, for example, that song is now officially, eternally awesome.
vice versa applies to. so, if you’re blasting some Udi Davidi (famous israeli singer) in the middle of kiryas yoel, that song NOW becomes bad, even if it WAS actually good. It’s all relative.July 29, 2013 5:05 am at 5:05 am #969151jewishfeminist02Member
My mom used to have a phobia of highway driving, and once, she was trying to merge, and freaking out, and the next song on her Carlebach CD came on “oyoyoyoyoy”….and she was like, “Yeah, I agree!!” lolJuly 29, 2013 8:08 am at 8:08 am #969152
It was not snide, i just think its unjust that just cuz i can write but not sing no one should care about me.
rationalfrummie: thatnks SO much! My friend mentioned him and she let me listen to a song from him, i wanted to search it on youtube to download some songs but forgot the name! Thanks, ive been trying to remember it ALL week!July 29, 2013 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #969153
Shopping613 – I was under the opinion that all adolescent girls can sing. Isn’t a subject in Production/Shabbaton/Melave Malka/Choir? Just kidding. I understand why that can be frustrating, but Carlebach didn’t get famous for his voice. Also, if you do write really well, you can definitely have famous singers perform your songs. You can even reach a wider audience this way because a popular male singer has a much larger listening base than a frum woman. Don’t let the inability to sing, keep you from writing. Also you might find it interesting to meet with Rachel Factor, and see what she has to say about a frum women practically being able to express her talent.July 29, 2013 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #969154
Mods can you please correct the spelling in the title…July 29, 2013 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #969155
OI: well put…July 29, 2013 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #969156HaLeiViParticipant
The musical introduction. It is usually nicer than the song.July 29, 2013 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #969157🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
Udi Davidi songs are amazing… the tune and the lyrics go together perfectly- as if they were both made for each other. That’s what I like best about a song… the whole of it together! When it all goes well. Nice lyrics to me are meaningless if the tune isn’t appropriate for them.July 30, 2013 8:50 am at 8:50 am #969158
Gammit, that is so true, that’s why i write the lyrics and make up the basic tune. Of course, i cant writr a melody and the introduction and the music with out the words parts. But the basic tune should match the words, that why i dont understand how one person write the song and another makes up the tune……
OI: i think you might like a CD called: Sincerely Me. Its by post-seminary girls that thought jewish music these days seems too goyish. Even if you listen to goyishe music, I think its wonderful. You can google sincerely me sarala pool and you’ll find it. My other favorite CD is: There’s a place in my mind. Its awfully old so i cant seem to be able to buy it in a store, but the songs are AMAZING. Its on mostlymusic.
What do you guyz think of this:
The little things
People spend so much time
pondering every little thing
Every since word theyve heard or said
and every begining…..
Sometimes we miss the forest for the trees
we think more about the thing we currently see
They say out of sight is out of mind
theyre not paying attention to the time
(This is part of the chorus):
things that that are just peices in a bigger puzzle up there,
in the sky, way up high, he knows, he sees, he understands,
he reads, every subtle movement in every little thing
Its a sample to one of my somgs (the parographs are in two different places in the song, so they dont connect so much)July 30, 2013 4:47 pm at 4:47 pm #969159
Very hard to judge based on this but looks like you’re on to something,
personally the melody plays a very important role and an honest rating would only be if I’d judge both the lyrics and melody together
For those of you having a difficult time finding the sincerely me demo google sincerelymecd.bandcamp
shopping: I did not find the “Theres a place in my mind” by any female singers on mostly music, the only thing that did come up was – Theres a Place in My Mind
byYehuda ! (Singer), Dov Levine (Singer), Deena Storch (Composer), Avromie Flam (Singer)July 30, 2013 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #969160TheMusicManParticipant
If I understood your question correctly, you’re asking two separate questions:
What is more important?
A. Songwriting: Lyrics vs. Melody
B. Song sections: Verse vs. Chorus/Bridge/Intro/Outro and vice versa.
Lyrics vs Melody;
Tough to answer. A song without a decent lyric can get by, (Some songs go viral without lyrics in the first place, i.e. No Lyrics [Benny Friedman], a whole slew of 8th Day songs, etc.) but a song with a horrible melody won’t get off the ground.
On the other hand, a really good song has both. Abie Rotenberg’s work is a fantastic example of this, with both really beautiful, meaningful (and on occasion, witty) lyrics fused with fantastic melodies.
A song does not, however, really require an extraordinary melody to be a hit. Baruch Levine’s Vezakeini has, in my opinion, a really plain, ordinary tune,with nothing extraordinary going on (as anyone who plays an instrument by chord will tell you). Not a bad melody, just not an exceptional one. A really plain melody! Lots of repeating notes! And yet, the lyric, which is quite poignant in this day and age, is what propelled it to the #1 ballad (slow song) in Jewish music of the past couple years, along with the likes of Yossi Green’s Anavim and Shwekey/Yonatan Razel’s Vehi Sheomdah, both unique songs (both in melody and in lyric).
So what is more important? Lyric vs melody? Given a choice of one or the other, I’d reluctantly say melody. Realistically, you really need both for a good song, along with a good arrangement (intro/verse/chorus structure; precise chord pattern), orchestration (choice of instruments), vocals (which singer, vocal effects, choir or not, if so, which size adult vs children), and other miscellaneous bits and bobs such as “feel” (laid-back vs upbeat, regardless of tempo [song speed]) and choice of musicians.
And verse/chorus structure?
Hands down, the chorus is the most important part of the song. The chorus is the song. Imagine Ma Ma Ma, Anavim or Hofachto without the chorus! Without a chorus you’ve got nothing.
Some songs have a hybrid style, such as Kach Es Sheli with a blended chorus/bridge.
The chorus is the heart (like the bass in orchestration). Everything else is mere detail.July 31, 2013 4:04 am at 4:04 am #969161
I never said ‘There’s a place in my mind’ was by females. That is the one I was reffering to. Did you like ‘Sincerely me’? My favorite song is: if you ask me, i think, your wonderful, your beatiful…….if you ask me I think, its such a shame you don’t agree, cuz there’s SO much of you, you don’t see- if you ask me.
TheMusicMan: The chorus is definetly the main part, it’s the glue of the song that connects everything else. Its the entire idea, the point you are trying to make. I end up writing the chorus first, usually. It’s the easiest! So the tune had to be somewhat good, but if its not the best, (sibce im no where near professional) people would not listen to my songs?July 31, 2013 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #969162nfgo3Member
Drum stick, wing, back, neck, breast, in that order.August 2, 2013 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #969163haifagirlParticipant
I thought I replied to this, but maybe not.
The most important part of the song is obviously the melody. The lyrics, without the music, is just poetry–not a song.
While the harmony may be beautiful, and the rhythm complex and interesting, neither are much use without the melody.
And the performer, without the melody, is just some guy standing around holding a microphone.
So why the question?August 3, 2013 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #969164
You mean like the tune?
poetry IS song, at least when I read it my mind automatically makes the tune…..
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