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Actually, it is usually liberals who smoke marijuana, and they claim to like government. As usual, what they really mean is they like when other people are governed
The Igros Moshe referred to earlier in the thread, which assers smoking marijuana for several reasons, is found in YD(3)35.
DY: But does he also assur using a vaporizer to vaporize it and then inhaling the vapor from a bag? No?
Didn’t think so.
Libertarians are not liberals. Liberals give government power to do whatever it wants as long as the people can do anything bad.
Popa, how do you transliterate that? I’ll try to look it up.
Popa- You said, “I think it is eminently fair that the govt should prevent substances from being grown if they think they are dangerous to society.”
On what basis are you claiming that cannabis is a danger to society? The scientific community certainly does not agree with that claim.
On what basis are you claiming that cannabis is a danger to society? The scientific community certainly does not agree with that claim.
I’m not claiming it; the government is. I have the slightest clue.
So you would be okay with a ban on any soft drinks larger than 16oz?
So you would be ok with me bringing up random laws you might or might not agree with to prove nothing to you?
Popa- It is apt in this case to bring up the soda ban.
I’ll quote you again. You said, “I think it is eminently fair that the govt should prevent substances from being grown if they think they are dangerous to society.”
Do you believe it is “fair” for a government to prevent things that they deem dangerous within society?
The government of NYC decided to ban soft drinks larger than 16oz because of the danger to the society’s health. Based only on your words, you should think this is fair.
“Marijuana is a bad thing and we should have the right to choose on our own to avoid it. Its illegality makes it more appealing to people who don’t like the government.”
This statement is fundamentally ridiculous. Firstly, the banning of dangers is universal to western societies. All the law would do is keep it as a controlled substance. Should cocaine, ecstasy, LSD, and methamphetamine not be controlled substances? Secondly, we already have the right to choose to avoid it or to indulge in it. Just who do you think the drug users and potheads are – aliens, robots, animals? They are people who are choosing to ingest the junk, who later to turn to the public and expect the support to rehabilitate them, to provide them with the resources for sustenance, finances, etc., and the medical care to treat all the medical conditions they brought upon themselves. The choice to self destruct always existed. The issue is whether we need to render that choice legal. I feel that laws should not coddle and support self-destruction. Same goes for the bailouts of other addictions.
Since we elected a president who has rarely, if ever, spoken the truth, or legislated anything of benefit to this country, I have zero faith in government. Yet, I choose to obey its laws to the best of my ability. I don’t like government, and actually hate it. But I have not ever contemplated smoking marijuana because of my political opinions. In reality, people who choose to fry their intellect and otherwise self destruct with drugs, including marijuana, are doing so because of their personal choice to engage in their preference to an altered state of mind rather than allowing themselves to remain creatures with saichel who can improve their world. They are sick and need help. Your average pothead does not pledge allegiance to their political ideology before taking a drag on a blunt.
The government of NYC decided to ban soft drinks larger than 16oz because of the danger to the society’s health. Based only on your words, you should think this is fair.
It isn’t a good question.
I think it is fair for NY to ban that if they think it is dangerous to society. I also think it is a stupid policy. Unlike marijuana where I don’t know if it is a stupid policy.
Just curious. Why are you inclined to think one is a stupid policy while you are unsure of the other?
Because I know more about one than the other. Why else?
Additionally, you believe it is fair for government to pass stupid policies?
I think that marijuana should legalized and regulated like smoking currently is (i.e. heavily taxed, not allowed for minors, not allowed in public buildings, etc.).
It’s not only about drug abuse. It’s also about the right to say no. How are we supposed to say no to drugs if they aren’t available? “
You did NOT just argue that!!!!!!!!
oomis:
There is plenty that is legal to say no about.
Yes I did. I’ve always wanted to say no to drugs. Even while I was still alive I wanted to but never got a chance. People need to make choices. And if you want a drug that is relatively easy to grow, you can get it. The problem is that money can always keep police quiet.
The little I know,
Would you say those same things about alcohol? Alcohol is a far worse drug then marijauna.
Popa- Still no answer? Do you believe it is fair for government to pass stupid policies?
The question doesn’t make sense to me.
000646:
Good question about alcohol.
Alcohol, if used moderately, can be completely harmless. In small amounts, it is not toxic and has no ill effects. I will note that far more people have issues with alcohol than we care to believe. The incidence of alcohol problems in our community is much greater than many believe. We still soothe ourselves with the saying, “Shikker is a goy.” Unfortunately, it is easy to abuse alcohol, and its legal access does make sure that abuse is still easy and largely inexpensive. But the limited use, such as has been prescribed by Torah is not problematic (except for those with increased sensitivities).
Nothing of the sort can be said of marijuana. It is always toxic, and causes damage with each and every puff. The greatest noted dangers of marijuana are associated with long term use, which is not paralleled with alcohol, for which limited long term use has no effect on health.
I am repulsed by the notion that the existence of anything in creation suggests that it is permissible. Before excusing smoking weed, perhaps you should try smoking poison ivy which also seems to lack any other purpose for existing.
Yes I did. I’ve always wanted to say no to drugs. Even while I was still alive I wanted to but never got a chance”
Trolling, trolling, trolling in CR.
Legalize ALL DRUGS (for 21+), and here’s why…
1) It will be less available to minors (think alchohol)
2) It can be regulated
3) crime will go down (most crime is drug related)
4) Gangs will have little to no funding
5) Taxes will go down (less “criminals” to lock up)
etc.
Popa- I think it makes sense to you. You just either made something up or you realize you are wrong. You claim it is “eminently fair” for government to pass “stupid” policies. See your previous posts for explanation.
Even if i knew how to purchase it i probably would not smoke it when i was in high school i smoked one cigarette i hated it i coughed and retched and said never again and it was my last cigarette i know some people are drawn to certain substances no matter if they are unhealthy or harmful or make your ears blow smoke that is their albatross that they must overcome i have my own.
The little I know- You said, “it is always toxic, and causes damage with each and every puff.” On what basis are you making that claim?
Further, smoking is not at all necessary. Vaporizers are great inventions and should be used at all times possible.
To the point about poison ivy; I have the choice to personally use that plant in any way I see fit. That should be the case for all plants. End of story.
From Harvard’s website:
In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning; memory defects may persist six weeks after last use. Mental disorders connected with marijuana use merit their own category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. These include Cannabis Intoxication (consisting of impaired motor coordination, anxiety, impaired judgment, sensation of slowed time, social withdrawal, and often includes perceptual disturbances; Cannabis Intoxication Delirium (memory deficit, disorientation); Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Delusions; Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Hallucinations; and Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder.
In addition, marijuana use has many indirect effects on health. Its effect on coordination, perception, and judgment means that it causes a number of accidents, vehicular and otherwise.
“Would you say those same things about alcohol? Alcohol is a far worse drug then marijauna”
When taken in excess, alcohol is far worse. However, a little bit of alcohol will only give you a slight buzzy warm feeling, similar to nicotine. With alcohol, the more you take, the more damage. Marijuana, on the other hand, will already alter your consciousness with the first hit.
As to the legal aspect, I think cannabis should be legalized, but not because I don’t think it is damaging. I think it will be safer if the government is regulating it than if it is being regulated by drug dealers from Harlem. I once had some that made me hallucinate and had my friend black out (two things that should never happen with raw marijuana) and our conclusion is that it was spiked and I’m scared to know what it was and I know people who died having their weed spiked with ground glass or with detergent. If the government regulates it, if a 14 year old (ie. someone who lacks good judgment) is looking to get his hands on weed, chances are it will be from a much safer source and will not have ‘fillers’ that some murderous drug dealer may use.
The little I know,
Weed is not more damaging to the body then alcohol. Used in moderation weed is healthier especially if it is not smoked (edibles). Alcohol is whole lot more damaging and addictive then weed. That’s the facts. It’s just that in 21st century America one is socially acceptable while one is not.
Interjection,
The high from a bit of marijauna is whole lot less mind altering then the high from alcohol.
000646:
If I wasn’t busy, I’d present a full array of scientific references to challenge you. To you and any other readers who might believe your position for a second, all I say is – do some research.
oomis- I meant that though marijuana is evil, we cannot expect our government to protect us from ourselves because it’s not their job. Besides, cannabis is not only a drug and glue is not only glue. Cannabis can be used to build strong houses and you can get high from varnish or paint.
The little I know,
I would say the same thing to support my position. Google Marijauna vs alcohol to get started.
As an aside can you find me a single recorded case of someone dying from ingesting to much weed?
Which drug tends to make people more violent?
Which drug will render its user incoherent quicker?
Which drug is more addictive?
Important to note in this discussion is that the question is whether Cannabis should be legal not whether it’s good for you. There are many things that are bad for you that are legal. Sometimes when something is legal it actually makes it less desirable as our sages of blessed memory said in Sanhedrin at the end of Perek Ben Sorer Umorer “Stolen waters are sweeter”. It could be legalizing cannabis would take away a lot of the allure stemming from the current pot smoking culture and kids would realize it’s just an overrated plant and move on to better things in life.
It is not possible to successfully eliminate alcohol. Prohibition was a flop.
Alcohol is natural and exists throughout the world and in the human body without drinking it and without any intervention. It is a product of a natural fermentation process that even occurs in places not inhabited by humans, sometimes intoxicating wildlife. Besides, alcohol is used in for sanitizing and cleaning, and it works very well, besides for being less toxic than other cleaners.
(There are many drugs that get you even more high than any of the ones you hear about, with the side effect of death in most people who take them.)
Rebyidd23,
You can say the same exact thing, virtually word for word about Marijuana / THC (the chemical that occurs in marijauna that makes you high)
No. Marijuana is a specific plant. You can get alcohol from almost anything. And no hand sanitizer or cleaning agent contains marijuana.
RebYidd123,
We are talking about in a form that is consumable.
Pure alcohol is consumable. Besides, it is easy to make consumable alohol.
Rebyid23,
Really? By who? It is even easier to grow marijauna.
Not without seeds, but you don’t need anything specific to make alcohol.
The question makes no sense. It is fair to have a government,a nd it is fair that the government will be composed of people, and people will sometimes make stupid decisions. That doesn’t retroactively make the whole notion of government unfair.
The fact that a specific policy is unwise is not a condemnation of the governments right to govern
Rebyid23,
To make a form of alchol that will be ingestible to anyone who is not a raving alcoholic is not an easy process. It is a whole lot more involved then growing marijauna.
I am not making a condemnation of government’s right to govern. I am condemning stupid laws as being unfair. You on the other hand are saying it is fair for the government to have stupid laws.
Moderator, what was wrong with my previous post?
I don’t want anyone trying it at home.
The little I know- You said, “it is always toxic, and causes damage with each and every puff.” On what basis are you making that claim?
Further, smoking is not at all necessary.
Vaporizers are great inventions and should be used at all times possible.
To the point about poison ivy; I have the choice to personally use that plant in any way I see fit. That should be the case for all plants. End of story.”
Rebyidd23- Where did you find such well worded rhetoric?
Back in a previous post by the little I know.
Not sure if it was The little I know who said that.
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