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If they tell you that when they grow up they want to do a non-frum job?
Or if your boy says that he wants to do a girl job (dunno what but there must be something)?
Or if your daughter wants to do a boy job (like be a rabbi)?
Do you say that you cannot do that because you are frum or it goes against Torah?
My sister’s kindergarten yearbook has a girl who said she wanted to be a zeidy when she grows up.
Once I asked an 8 year old student what he wants to be when he grows up and he replied, “A Goy!”
We all laughed and I called on the next kid.— sometimes it doesn’t pay to make a big deal out of everything.
However at the same time I keep an eye out for him.
Your question is what do you tell them if they want to do something against the Torah.
Depends, What is a non-frum job?
Depends, What is a non-frum job?
Like be a priest.
Many little frum boys want to be a garbageman or policeman or fireman- jobs that seem cool to a 3 year old. They grow out of it. By the time they are actually old enough to consider jobs and what they need to do to get such jobs, they are old enough to understand what is compatible with a frum life. No need to fret or lecture the little ones.
pba: that would be a non-jewish job. LB gives a long distance trucker as an example. I am not sure why that necessarily is a not frum profession.
wtp: and if they live in EY? Those professions don’t have daatim?
A garbage man is a good job that pays well, with good benefits and you dont need alot of education to get it
Long distance truck driver is also good paying and someone can listen to torah MP3’s while driving
lightbrite,
If they tell you that when they grow up they want to do a non-frum job?
What’s a non-frum job?
Or if your boy says that he wants to do a girl job (dunno what but there must be something)?
Or if your daughter wants to do a boy job (like be a rabbi)?
Do you say that you cannot do that because you are frum or it goes against Torah?
I would strongly recommend against saying that, because a young child doesn’t yet fully understand the concept of “against Torah”, or even most of the concepts the Torah is addressing. S/He can, however, feel rejected and hurt. I think it’s better to try and connect with the child’s feelings underpinning the statement, and then to gently redirect if needed.
To take another example, it’s very normal for a toddler to say something like, “when I grow up, I’m going to marry mommy!” Would a sharp, unintelligible (to him) response be appropriate, making him feel like his desire for connection with his mother is a bad thing, and she hates him? Or would a hug be best, followed with something like, “G-d willing, you will grow up to be an erliche young man, and Hashem will help you marry and have a family of your own, and your mommy will always be your mommy, and she loves you so much and will always love you.”
There’s nothing innately non-frum about driving a truck. I have personally known yirei shamayim who drove trucks (18-wheelers) in the tri-state area.
The challenge unique to long-haul trucking is tight delivery deadlines which are impossible to meet while staying off the road for Shabbos/Yom Tov. There’s just too much competition from drivers who haven’t those restrictions.
Example of non-frum job;
Veterinarian
Neutering is assur
Had a friend in High School who really wanted to be vet, but Rebbe dissuaded him. He was practical. How can you join a profession where a significant part of your responsibilities are assur?
iacisrmma: “wtp: and if they live in EY? Those professions don’t have daatim?”
Actually, I spent a long time the other day behind a garbage truck and noticed that the guy who was slowly loading the can, carefully putting in a new garbage bag into the bin, and finally climbing into the truck was wearing a yarmulke.
My point wasn’t so much that these are not professions for frum people, rather that little kids have dreams/aspirations that will very much change over time and therefore it is not worth making a big deal out of it. In our house, garbageman was replaced by fix-it-man, which was replaced by… you get the idea.
When I grow up, I wanna be a Mod.
(was I just committing from the ??? ??????: “Do not request to be a Moderator” – ??? ?’ ?”? ??)
What do you tell a child who wants to down a quart of ice cream?
I know someone who, when he was about 5 years old, I want to be a fireman in the morning and a tzadik in the afternoon.
He is now mid-30s and a (very competent) electrical engineer, who runs a morning chaburah in our shul.
But to the original question, the answer is; don’t take it too seriously when they are very little. Just today my son told me, he wants to be an astronaut, soldier, fisherman, pirate, deep sea diver and firefighter. Tomorrow it’ll be another load of things. If he’s still saying all that at 16, I would have to take advice.
I’ve seen some already neutered dogs on shelters’ websites.
Frum Jews are not allowed to spay/neuter their animals, or have them done even by a non-Jew, since the prohibition applies to non-Jews as well. There is no issur of owning one that was already neutered however, so you could get one already neutered from a shelter or previous owner.
Maybe the frum guy was buying fish food or bird seed?
HaLeiVi,
What do you tell a child who wants to down a quart of ice cream?
“The ice cream was really good, wasn’t it? I’d love to have more too, but too much ice cream would make us feel sick. So let’s put it away.”
“We can have more ice cream tomorrow.”
“Oh, that ice cream is for a different time, let’s put it back.”
(In a growly cave man voice) “Mmmm ice cream good! Will gobble up whole thing! Glumyumyumyumyumyum (pretend to eat the whole thing, box included). Yuck! Box! Feh feh! Oooooh owww tummy ache. Better put this away quick so you don’t get a tummy ache too.”
Will those types of responses prevent a tantrum? For a tired or hungry kid, probably not. But they get the message across without emotional hurt.
mentsch1,
Example of non-frum job;
Veterinarian
Neutering is assur
Very interesting response, thank you!
There are some frum veterinarians (do a bit of Googling and you’ll see.) I don’t know how they can do it. But I’ve heard some poskim allow spaying and neutering nowadays.
Anyway, I think WinniethePoo is right, that it’s not really a problem in practice; by the time they’re old enough to seriously think about careers they will no what’s not appropriate. There are few non-frum careers anyway that a small kid would know about.
I agree with WTP. I think it’s healthy for kids to dream. There is nothing wrong with wanting to do everything, and there is nothing inherently wrong with most of the professions listed here.
The main problem is that they may not be compatible with being a serious Talmid Chacham or the kind of eishes chayil that many Frum people are hoping their kids will be.
But the kids themselves will realize that when they grow up. At some point they will figure out that it’s impossible to both sit and learn all day and be a truck driver. And if you brought them up with certain values, chances are they will choose learning all day. Unless they really are not capable of it, in which case it’s good they have something else to fall back on it.
A girl wanting to be a Rabbi is different, since there are halachic problems with that. Instead of emphasizing what she can’t do, try to figure out why she wants to be a Rabbi, and help to find ways she CAN do those things in a kosher way. It is possible.
If I were a child that got therapy for any whimsical statement I uttered, I’d be scared to open my mouth again.
HaLeiVi,
If I were a child that got therapy for any whimsical statement I uttered, I’d be scared to open my mouth again.
Ummm, wut
Where did anyone suggest that a child get “therapy” for any statement he makes, whimsical or not?
There are probably more girls who want to be ballerinas than those who want to be rabbis.
Children often say things that contain such stark truth that we would benefit from hearing them out instead of stifling it, even if the content seems questionable to us, initially.
Where did anyone suggest that a child get “therapy” for any statement he makes, whimsical or not?
This:
Instead of emphasizing what she can’t do, try to figure out why she wants to be a Rabbi, and help to find ways she CAN do those things in a kosher way. It is possible.
The kid said something. No need to make a discussion about it if they didn’t ask for it. If it becomes a recurring theme then there’s what to talk about.
Haleivi – I didn’t mean that you have to make a big deal out of it. I just meant that if a girl says she wants to be a Rabbi, I think you should let her know that girls can’t be Rabbis. But you should try to do it in a positive way – tell her that she can be a Rebbetzin or teacher or melumedes, etc.
When I wrote that you should try to figure out why she wants to be a Rabbi, I wasn’t talking about therapy (or anything similar). I just meant that you should try to figure out what aspect of being a Rabbi appeals to her so you can know what the female-appropriate equivalent is. If it’s the learning that she is interested in, tell her she can be a melumedes/talmida chachama. If it’s the teaching aspect, tell her she can be a Rebbetzin or teacher. If it’s the counseling aspect, tell her she can be a therapist or Rebbetzin,etc.
That was all. I didn’t mean that it has to be a major discussion.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be Rabbi Akiva or Rashi. I even started writing a peirush on the Siddur like Rashi on the Chumash (l’havdil). I figured I couldn’t do it on the Chumash, because Rashi took that already. I even gave a name to my peirush – my initials made into a word, like Rashi (l’havdil).
I know of a frum veterinarian who works for a zoo. Obviously, she’s not called upon to neuter animals.
I know someone who as a little girl said she wanted to be a fireman. She ended up marrying someone named Fireman.
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