What do you think of this quotation?

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    This was in a story (fiction) in a recent issue of a frum magazine.

    [A woman is talking about her youth:]

    “I listened to music that came from places far from

    our hashkafos, I read improper reading

    material… and more. I was doing things that no Bais

    Yaakov girl should ever come close to.”

    Her voice dipped again. “But on the outside,

    I was perfect.”

    She looked at us intently. “I dressed as tzniyusdig

    as possible, I was kind to my friends, I had all the right

    answers in class. People looked up to me as a fine Jewish girl.

    But inside I was nothing. The stuff I listened to and read

    were eating away at my soul.

    And it would’ve continued that way, too. Maybe I would’ve

    married a top boy on the illusion that I was a top girl. And

    I would’ve tried to bring up Yiddishe kinder, but

    without a heart.”

    [… She tells how her sister talked to her about the situation:]

    ” ‘ You have a choice between true Yiddishkeit and that.’

    She pointed at the quilt covering the offending publication.

    ‘When you read material like that, you are less capable of

    feeling what being a Yid is all about. When you are pulled

    toward the culture outside of our beautiful mesorah,

    the less you end up feeling for your own religion. There isn’t room for both.’ “


    ” ‘ The more you indulge in the secular culture, the less

    you feel for Yiddishkeit.[…]’ ”

    Do you agree?


    She’s absolutely correct.



    Let’s try this again.

    Does anyone know of any reliable sources that back this up?


    Some claim the story of Acher, but I think Pashtus is that that’s a mistranslation of Zimra Yevanis.

    Avram in MD


    Does anyone know of any reliable sources that back this up?

    Moshe Rabbeinu himself?

    ??? ????????? ???? ???????? ????????? ????? ???? ?????????? ??? ??????????? ?????? ????? ???????? ????? ???????? ???????????


    “Be careful and guard yourself exceedingly lest you forget the

    things you saw at Chorev, and lest they be removed from your heart.”

    Please explain how that supports the statements made in the story.


    How about ??? ??? ???? ????

    I think we don’t really need a source, although I’m sure there’s a better one than the above, but we have most likely all been Guinea pigs…


    The subject is capable of maintaining a model exterior without a passion to match it. An amazing feat! Being so placid about her ideal self, allows her to waste away with mindless activities. Her sister is telling her, that her real choices take place within. How she presents herself, will never be the real her, until she introverts her exterior. I can identify with that. While not so extreme, we have the ability to portray one identity, and align our true selves with something else. The contents that we waste our time with does not matter as much as the lack of growth.


    Wasting time with ‘Jewish’ culture, would gave a similar effect.


    Maybe the emptiness inside cause her to read the secular literature ?
    Not reading the secular literature would not have automatically given her a bren for yiddishkeit.

    Coldness in yiddishkeit is partially Yetzer Hara, partially one of the punishments of Golus and partially because we are physical beings that enjoy physical pleasures.

    As Avraham Fried sings – the maamar hachasidim
    Essen Est Zich Trinken Trinkt Zich,
    Vos Zol Men Ton As Es Davent Zich Nit.
    Essen Est Zich Shloffen Shloft Zich,
    Vos Zol Men Ton As Es Lerent Zich Nit.


    Eating comes naturally; drinking and sleeping come naturally, but praying and studying Torah Seems to take much effort

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    Beautiful response


    Yes but also no.

    In a perfect world, everyone would only be speaking Lashon HaKodesh, getting all their education from frum teachers in Yeshivos and Bais Yaakovs, and working with only frum people. But despite our best efforts, we cannot be completely secluded from outside influences. Even these Jewish magazines that decry goyishe “culture” so much are heavily based on similar secular publications.

    So while I absolutely applaud anyone who chooses not to have non-Jewish literature in the house, I will not approve of people who criticize those that do.

    Reb Eliezer

    Chazal assered Greek culture (chachmas chitzoniyus) because it is very similar to Jewish in many areas one might follow it everywhere. If it was completely different, would be less of a problem.


    RebE > If it was completely different, would be less of a problem.

    Indeed, Greeks presented a new challenge. Even early greek myths are already different from earlier primitive beliefs. They are polytheists, rather than idol-worshippers. Their gods are not statures or animals, but representation of forces and ideas. Philosophers were a step further. How do we interact with it – it is definitely both a challenge and an opportunity. After all, Hashem did not “choose” to hide from the world, but to affect it positively, and we would rather interact with Aristotle than with Bilaam. And we have numerous Rabbis quoting directly or indirectly from non-Jewish philosophers (which in the language of the time included scientists). It is a fair discussion about side effect and precautions for interaction, but a belief that Hashem created the whole world as “goyishe culture” that we need to ignore is silly. A doctor treating a dangerous patient will put N95 and gloves to protect both the patient and himself, but should not refuse to treat him (provided he is qualified).


    Dear Yserbius,

    Nobody criticized secular culture on this thread in the last six years.

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