What does Bitachon mean to you?
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- This topic has 18 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 1 month ago by BaalHabooze.
April 10, 2012 3:31 am at 3:31 am #602869brotherofursParticipant
There’s a difference of opinion:
EITHER: Whatever i want to happen, will happen if i truly trust in Hashem.
We’re in the hands of Hashem and we can do all we can but the end result is up to Him.
??April 10, 2012 4:31 am at 4:31 am #867793
In my opinion, Bitachon is definition number two.
“We’re in the hands of Ha-Shem, and we can do all we can, but the end result is up to Him.”
Now, the difference between Emunah and Bitachon is that Emunah is our belief, and Bitachon is how we show our belief through our actions. Yet we must have them both. One cannot stand without the other. A person cannot do things just to show to others that he believes if deep down he does not really believe. However, one cannot believe without doing things to prove his belief, because he must do his Hishtadlus. Ha-Shem will only do if we show Him we really want him to do. And even then, He might not do as we want, because Ha-Shem knows what’s best.
This is only my opinion on the matter. I am not saying I’m right or wrong. Please tell me if you believe otherwise.April 10, 2012 4:51 am at 4:51 am #867794batsevenParticipant
WOW- Giggle Girl.
Whatever u said was completely true- and very well written.
I was thinking of formulating a response but then I read your post and it says everything I wanted to say!
That is the very truth about emunah and bitachon.
Thank You so much!April 10, 2012 5:15 am at 5:15 am #867795KozovMember
It seems from Chovas Halvavos Shar Habitachon, Ikrim and Yalkut Shimoni 473 that Bitachon is number 1, but only if it is strong enough. The help from Hashem is actually a reward for his strengthening his bitachon (not if that is why he strengthens his bitachon). This of course is in addition to number 2 which applies to someone who hasnt reached this level of bitachon, in which case he may know that he is not neccessarily deserving of hashems help (but hashem might do so anyways). In addition, his punishment was not only a “preventative measure” but also a cleansing for his soul emenating from Hashem’s kindness so that he can reattain and attain higher spiritual heights while alive and in Gan Eden. Also punishments in this world are lighter than in Gehinnom again from Hashem’s compassion. But again notwithstanding this if he strengthens his bitachon in hashem that hashem “will” save him (and for example is completely at peace, and doesn’t worry at all) then #1 applies to him still.April 10, 2012 5:31 am at 5:31 am #867796Avi KParticipant
Emuna and bitachon are more or less the same. They are the faith that whatever Hashem gives us is for the ultimate good.As with everything else there are many madreigot. Bitachon is action in so far as it gives us the koach to do what we must.However, it does not mean that we can “test” Hashem and do something foolish and unnecessary. The Chazon Ish give as an example standing in the middle of a highway.April 10, 2012 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #867797yungerman1Participant
A big part of Bitachon is ?? ?? ?????. Everything happens for a reason and is for the best.April 10, 2012 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #867798kingdavidParticipant
“Whatever i want to happen, will happen if i truly trust in Hashem.”
If you TRULY trust in hashem then you won’t want things to happen which hashem knows is not good for you.
HaGaon Rav Chayim Volozhin (Nefesh HaChayim III:12-13) cites the Gemara in Chullin Daf 7b which teaches that if a person internalizes the Pasuk: “Hashem, He is G-d, there is nothing else beside Him(Devarim 4:35) he will be protected from harmful forces. When one accepts Hashem’s absolute sovereignty he places himself fully under His protective wing. Although nature contains many destructive elements, the man of faith understands that they are but marionettes in the hands of the Creator.
When we truly realize and understand that Hashem is the only force in the world then the other forces will lose their significance and we will realize that nothing in the world can have any effect on us.April 10, 2012 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #867799AinOhdMilvadoParticipant
Emunah is just the general belief that there is a HaSh-m who created the universe and gave us the Torah.
Bitachon is much harder. Bitachon is the ability to maintain your emunah when things seem bad, even very bad, even terrible. As “yungerman1” (above) said, to trust that HaSh-m is there with you and that He does only what is good, even if we can’t see how it is good now. To trust that even when we have crushing financial issues, or health issues, or loss of a loved one issues, and that eventhough right now, with our limited perspective, these things seem horrible beyond horrible, to know that nevertheless, despite how these things seem to us now, that in HaSh-m’s great master plan, even these “terrible” things are ultimately good.
Sometimes we will realize these “terrible” things were good in just a few months time. Sometimes in a few years time. Sometimes we may not see how it was good until at 120 we go “upstairs” and can see that bigger picture.
BUT… bitachon means that though we do not understand NOW how what seems bad IS good, we still, internally, DO trust that it is.April 10, 2012 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #867800KozovMember
“If you TRULY trust in hashem then you won’t want things to happen which hashem knows is not good for you.”
Even an ignorant person can be helped with the bitachon at his level of knowledge.April 10, 2012 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #867801ballet slipperParticipant
bitachon is that everything comes from hashem and is the best for us- litachlus hatov, even if to us it seems bad. We have to hold Hashems hand, and he will walk us through it. One first has to do his hishtadlus- dig and hashem will bring the rain. This is the same with parnasa and hashem decides it on rosh hashana so its not the work that brings the money.April 11, 2012 12:31 pm at 12:31 pm #867802HaLeiViParticipant
After the fact, of course you should realize that obviously this is what Hashem knows is good. Beforehand, you place your trust in Hashem that things will be good, in its true, simple, regular, meaning.
A person has to be able to disengage past experience and completely believe in Hashem. Remember and point out to yourself the times Hashem clearly answered you, and dismiss the times you were disappointed.
Emuna is like a pendulum: The stronger you push the more it comes back, and the stronger it comes back the further you can throw it. Someone with a strong Betachon sees many results, which in turn enables him to build upon his Betachon. But you can start off small.
Read Rabbeinu Bachya in his Kad Hakemach on the topic of Betachon. He says that in the Zchus of the Betachon alone you will be helped. He also adds that, of course, there are times when things fall through. Then we must focus and realize that Hashem knows best what is best.
The difference between before and after is like any strong friendship. You are positive that your friend won’t leave without you. If you think otherwise you are doubting your friendship. However, if the friend did leave without you, then an undoubting friend starts to think that obviously something urgent came up.April 11, 2012 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm #867803
“In my opinion, Bitachon is definition number two.”
Where did you receive your Rabbinic Ordination from exactly that entitles you to your very own opinion on what is obviously not a simple matter, as seen by the many many seforim written to explain this very question.April 12, 2012 2:42 am at 2:42 am #867804avnerParticipant
this seems to be a machlokes.
While the chazon ish in emunah and bitachon takes side 2.
the madregas haadam takes side one.
The vilna gaon on mishle “??? ??” ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ????
brings the gemara which tries to understand why the pasuk
???? ?? ?” ???? ???? ??????
uses the word ???? and not ????
the gemara clarifies from a story of rabbah(?) who had a heavy burden and along came a merchant with a camel and told him to place his ???? on the camel, from here the gemarah understands the word.
The Vilna Gaon said, chazal did not need the this story to teach them the word, rather they were not sure if bitachon was enough to garner results or you needed hishtadlus, when Rabba(?) who had strong bitachon, did not action and his needs were taken care of, even when usually you would need to pay for this kind of service and search out for someone to help. The chazal learn from here that ???? implies, that by bitachon alone all your needs will be taken care of.
Another gemara, where a poor person comes to rabba, asking for chicken and aged wine, and rabbah replies, “how can you ask for such fancy stuff when you are taking from tzedaka?”
The pauper replies, “i am not taking from you, rather i am taking from hashem”
when in walks rabbas sister who he has not seen for 13 years, with a gift of plenty of chicken and old wine.
From here rabba understands that by trust alone your needs will be taken care of.
The ramban seems to imply that by trust alone one can be healed from sickness, and the pasuk, verapo yerape, is giving permission to those who lack bitachon to go to a doctor.April 12, 2012 3:23 am at 3:23 am #867805
Well, excuse me, mochoh timcheh! Did I mention anywhere in my post that I have my PHD (Posekes HaDor)? I said it was my opinion (yes, based on things I have learned in school and out). I picked up different pieces from different teachers and different places out of school. “In my opinion” means that I am not a Rabbi nor a Rebbetzin, and I cannot say any more than my own opinion. That is why I told people to correct me – and I meant in a nice manner.
1)Am I not entitled to my own opinion?
2)Read the title – does it not say “what does bitachon mean to YOU”?
3)Are you popa bar abba with a different name?April 12, 2012 8:23 pm at 8:23 pm #867806
“1)Am I not entitled to my own opinion?”
No one is not entitled to an opinion, for the same reason that random people do not have a relevant opinion on nuclear physics or quantum mechanics. Torah is no different. There is no room in Torah or Halachah for people to have their own “opinions”. The question posed by the OP is “what does Bitachon mean to you” – that is perfectly valid, as one can associate whatever meaning in something as he pleases, as that is toluy on the individual; to have an opinion what something is, on the other hand, is invalid and one who does not have the requisite daas Torah has no right so an opinion whatsoever. What the OP brought down is simply real tzedadim of a machlokes as spelled out by valid Torah authorities of previous generations.
“2)Read the title – does it not say “what does bitachon mean to YOU”?”
See previous paragraph – you didn’t confine your opinion to answering that question alone.
“3)Are you popa bar abba with a different name?”
NoApril 15, 2012 1:56 am at 1:56 am #867807brotherofursParticipant
mochoh- i dont really understand what you wrote but i didnt see anything wrong with giggle girl’s answer, i wanted her opinion, i wanted to know what people live by, because i’ve heard different answers from different people.
kingdavid- but maybe it’s not good for you untilllll you show Hashem that you truly trust in Him( you become a changed person when u trust in Hashem and then different things are good for you)
also what about “bederech she’adam rotzeh lalech boh molichin oto” -doesn’t it coincide with bitachon #1?- like i remember reading in “All for the Boss” a story how Reb Yaakov Yoseph Herman started walking to Jerusalem in the night so that he wouldn’t have to sleep outside of Jerusalem. Even if he would have walked for days he still wouldnt have made it there but he trusted that if he made this commitment, Hashem would help him through it. And Hashem did, and his friend happened to come on that exact road and was able to drive him the long distance.April 15, 2012 5:41 am at 5:41 am #867808
Thank you, brotherofurs, for sticking up for me and understanding me.
Mochoh timcheh – I don’t know if you read a certain part of my post. I picked up different bits and pieces from different places who all had sources. I am not going to look up every single source and quote them all on what they said. If you would like, and if you would ask me kindly, maybe I will look some of them up. It may take quite a bit of time to look through many notebooks of mine, but if you would really like me to then maybe I will.April 15, 2012 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #867809
“Mochoh timcheh – I don’t know if you read a certain part of my post. I picked up different bits and pieces from different places who all had sources. I am not going to look up every single source and quote them all on what they said. If you would like, and if you would ask me kindly, maybe I will look some of them up. It may take quite a bit of time to look through many notebooks of mine, but if you would really like me to then maybe I will.”
Apparently you did not read my previous analasys. Vesides for which your first post is wi tink somewhat inaccurate in terms of answering the specific question posed by the OP as well as your own thesisApril 17, 2012 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #867810BaalHaboozeParticipant
ok mochoh timcheh, I think bein hazemanim is over for you, you seem to be a little…ahem….disturbed, or just looking to pick on someone. in any case you should go back to your studies.
When the OP asked his question here in the CR it was a conversation starter with a clear interest in everyone’s OPINION ON the matter. end of story.
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