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We all learned as children that HKBH gave the Torah to Moshe on Har Sinai. But what *exactly* was given is not so clear. And so, I pose the question — what, exactly, did Moshe receive on Har Sinai?
Did he receive the Torah text exactly as we have it from B’raishis to V’zos HaB’racha? Did he receive only a portion of it at that time? If so, exactly what portions?
What about the Nevi’im and Kesuvim? Was any of this given over at Har Sinai? The gemara in B’rachos seems to indicate that it was — but if so, then in what form? The form we currently have it? Some other form?
How about the Torah SheB’AlPeh? Exactly what of TSBP was given at Sinai — and, more importantly, what was transmitted to the rest of Klal Yisroel to be given over to future generations? Did Moshe get the Mishnayos and Gemara as we have them now? Probably not, I would think — but hey, I could be wrong. If not, then what, exactly, did he receive?
The Wolf
This is an excellent question. The answer, IMO should be general knowledge and taught at the appropriate age. Check out Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan’s Handbook of Jewish Thought, vol. I.
I can only guess, but to the best of my guessing, from what I remember learning and trying to extrapolate from my memories of what I think I learned, was that Moshe recieved the Luchos and both the written and Oral Torah from Beresheis up to the arrival at Her Sinai, and it was all taught to him while he was up there for 40 days.
The Oral Torah would have been straightforward, not so much like we have today.
The Yerushalmi is a bit more like the way it was origionally, as far as my extremly limited understanding, seems to tell me.
Today; Since the time it was written down, some had been forgotten and some parts were remembered one way while someone else remembered it differently so all the versions were put into the final written version.
Parts that were missing or that did not seem to cover details (because people did not remmeber how to understand the details from the main text) had to be discussed and argued over, untill someone finally said “this is the decision” and from that, eventually came the Shulchan Aurich.
As Klal Yisroael were in the dessert for 40 years, it would seem to me that H-sh-m continued to dictate to Moshe, more of the Torah as it unfolded up till his time of Nifteros, came.
After this Joshuah I believe, finished the Sefer Torah, and it was then complete.
Great question. It’s a pitty that something so basic isn’t taught to us in school/cheder.
Thank you Tzippy, I’ll check out Rabbi Kaplan’s book you mentioned. I love his books.
Please see the Gemara Brochos Daf Hey, Amed Aleph, concerning your question as it states openly that everything was given on Har Sinai.
There is some question as to what form it was given it whether it was the actual words or the Clalim (rules and principals) as seems to be the case from the Medrash in Shmos Rabbah.
The reason why these things are not taught in more specificity in school is probably because of the complexity as there many Gemora’s and Medroshim on the subject and it is something that does not allow for mistakes as a mistake can lead to Kefira please see the yud gimeel ikrim.
hereorthere! Yehoshua finished the Torah?! Chas Veshalom!
The Halacha is that you are not allowed to be Mafsik by the last eight Pesukim so that it should not appear that these Pesukim are different than the rest or written separately. The Gemara says that Moshe wrote these Pesukim with tears.
As far as if he learned our Gemara, it says that he learned every question that a studious Talmud would ask his Rebbe
HaLeiVi, thanks for the clarification.
As I said I was just going by extremly limited learning and memory from dozens of years ago from when I was in yeshivah.
Interesting! I learned that it was a machlokes whether Moshe wrote them with tears or that Yehoshua wrote them. Apparently it’s discussed in Bava Basra 15b but I don’t have a Gemorah handy.
I was always taught that Moshe Rabbeinu came down with the Luchos amd halachos of the Written Torah, as well as the Oral Law in its bottom line form (meaning no discussion and machlokess as we see in the Gemarah, but straight halacha l’maiseh). So for example, the Written Torah tells men to put on Tefillin (but no further details are really given), but what Moshe Rabbeinu was told to teach over Orally, was HOW tefillin are made, what they contain, how to put them on, etc.
BS”D
Wolf: What exacly Niv’im are is also subject to a machlokes Rishonim, whether they are the words of the Navi’s understanding of the nevuah or the word of Hashem telling the navi what to write.
The practical Nafka mina is if reading navi without understanding it is a mitzva of Limud Torah (as Torah is, since it is the direct word of Hashem).
Navi was NOT given at Har Sinai, and if fact the Gemorah explicitly states (I think also in BB) that if not for the jews sinning, there would be no Navi other then parts of Yehoshua dealing with how the land was divided.
Ben Levi is correct regarding the Machlokes. Interestingly, one of the Rayos that the Torah was not given with all the words at Har Sinai are the paradoxes created by the Miraglim and Maase Mire’va, and why they would have been attempted by Moshe if he already knew the result from Hashem. (thought Wolf would like that one).
How can there be a Machloikes on something that we should have a clear Mesoirah – father to son – until today?
The Oral Torah was given at Har Sinai simutaneously with the Written Torah.
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