What I learned from the Turx Controversy

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  • #619313

    Git Meshige
    Participant

    From every situation we can learn a lesson , especially when the story had worldwide attention. Many in our Community were quick to ridicule and criticize Turx how he had the audacity to show up in front of the President with a silly yarmulke and how he looked disheveled and not look respectable in front of the Leader Of The Free World. To these people I ask a very simple question. Are you outraged when people talk during Davening or on their phones during Davening? Do you get outraged when people show up to Shul wearing their Work Clothes or Scrubs or with Shorts and T Shirts? Why is it OK to show limited respect to the Kings Of All Kings on a daily Basis and yet when one individual embarrasses your sense of pride in front of the World, that warrants an outrage?

    The lesson is obviously clear. People should put their priorities in perspective.

    #1219469

    yungermanS
    Participant

    Being Jewish i learn to lay low and not attract attention to myself. As a reporter i do want to grow but not at the price of others or at the price of c hillul Hashem

    #1219470

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    It’s wrong to be outraged by any of those things.

    #1219471

    Joseph
    Participant

    I’m sure it’ll pay dividends for Ami sales. So why worry about any negative repercussions it may have on the Jewish community?

    #1219472

    FuturePOTUS
    Participant

    It’s clear you want us to say we don’t have our priorities straight. Yet there is a basic difference between acting inappropriately during davening and what Turx did. One is a Chillul Hashem on a national level, and one isn’t.

    #1219473

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Turx did his job.

    #1219474

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “there is a basic difference between acting inappropriately during davening and what Turx did. One is a Chillul Hashem on a national level, and one isn’t.”

    How is acting inappropriatly during davening a Chillul Hashem on a national level?

    #1219475

    yungermanS
    Participant

    Ubiquitous

    Its vice versa Turx national c hillul Hashem not talking in shul

    #1219476

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “Its vice versa Turx national c hillul Hashem not talking in shul”

    That makes even less sense. How is a reporter being clearly misunderstood a national chillul Hashem?

    #1219477

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    The question did not cause the controversy, the “answer” did.

    #1219478

    besalel
    Participant

    what i learned: if you want to become a journalist, it is important to obtain a solid education because otherwise when your moment in the sun comes you may end up being too incoherent and inarticulate that your question ends up becoming a national story.

    #1219479

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Turx did not IMO do anything wrong. I saw the same video everyone else did

    #1219480

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    The best journalists are not able to deal with Donald Trump, because in journalist school you learn how to talk to adults, not toddlers.

    #1219481

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The question did not cause the controversy, the “answer” did.

    There would not have been an answer had there not been a question.

    #1219482

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Turx did not IMO do anything wrong. I saw the same video everyone else did

    From a journalistic perspective, perhaps, but it’s not a good idea to antagonize the president, especially since we know how volatile Trump is.

    The fact that the second part of the question needed a disclaimer should have been reason enough not to ask it at all.

    I think in subsequent interviews, Turx did a great job of not blaming Trump for his reaction, and probably undid all the damage he may have done, and perhaps even turned the whole episode into a positive.

    #1219483

    chizuk1
    Participant

    Turx’s message on Tucker Carlson was a major Kiddush Hashem.

    #1219484

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    DaasYochid,

    There would not have been an answer had there not been a question.

    And John wouldn’t have screamed obscenities at Richard had Richard not happened to be in front of him on the expressway.

    Trump chose to call on Turx, and the question was such a softball that it could have only been “nicer” to the point of ridiculousness, like asking, “Mr. President, given how extremely awesome you are, how do you not make other people in the room feel so lowly in your presence?” Had the president just responded something even simple such as, “I think anti-Semitic acts are terrible”, there would have been no story.

    #1219485

    Joseph
    Participant

    Avram: DY’s underlying point is that Trump is the President of the United States. So even if he’s wrong and the Jew right, the Jew shouldn’t antagonise him, even unwittingly and unintentionally, since he’s the head of our government. (Or even if he were merely an influential governmental official.)

    If John is the POTUS and Richard a Yid, Richard should avoid being in front of him on the expressway if that might unreasonably antagonise him.

    #1219486

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    That question was not antagonistic at all. It was a normal question

    #1219487

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Joseph (and DY)

    So the only solution would be to avoid asking questions or being near him.

    Or as Joseph says “should avoid being in front of him on the expressway if that might unreasonably antagonise him.”

    but doesnt that run the risk of causing chillul Hashem too? If he finds out that Jews are afriad to aks him even an easy question or to be in fron of him on an expressway as we fear eh might act “unreasonably”?

    #1219488

    Joseph
    Participant

    Who here ever said that the question was antagonistic?

    #1219489

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Perhaps it was a normal question, but why did everyone have to blow it up? Even the AMI made a huge riduculous dramatic story retelling.

    #1219490

    Joseph
    Participant

    Huge riduculous overblown dramatic story retelling is what sells papers.

    (My last comment was for zd.)

    ubiq, no, being quiet wouldn’t result in a c”H in such a case.

    #1219491

    yytz
    Participant

    It was not a Chillul Hashem. On the contrary, it raised the visibility of the issue of growing anti-Semitism as an issue of national and international concern, highlighted the growing prominent of frum Jews in America, and gave Turx a chance to make a Kiddush Hashem by responding to Trump’s non-answer/attack with good middos, refusing to criticize the president even though he needlessly humilitated him.

    People shouldn’t let their pro-Trump partisanship or personal aesthetic preferences cloud their judgment and make them want to publicly heap scorn on a fellow Yid.

    YWN should be ashamed of itself for allowing so many hateful comments against Turx on the comments section of its news article about him. There’s no way all that lashon hara and motzei shem ra is appropriate for a frum site. Maybe the gedolim who tried to ban the Internet were right.

    #1219492

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    THANK YOU YYTZ for speaking TRUTH.

    #1219494

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Trump chose to call on Turx, and the question was such a softball that it could have only been “nicer” to the point of ridiculousness, like asking, “Mr. President, given how extremely awesome you are, how do you not make other people in the room feel so lowly in your presence?” Had the president just responded something even simple such as, “I think anti-Semitic acts are terrible”, there would have been no story.

    You shouldn’t be so surprised that Trump reacted the way he did. That’s who he is.

    #1219495

    simcha613
    Participant

    I think it’s fascinating how people are quicker to criticize Jake Turx than President Trump. If the same exact thing happened with President Obama instead of President Trump, I suspect the reaction would be slightly different…

    #1219496

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Someone explained it to me as this.

    Alot of people are blaming Trump for increasing Anti-Semitism , which Turx did not know. When Turx asked the question, Trump took it differnetly thinking Turx was blaming him for Anti-Semitism, which is not what Turx meant

    #1219497

    yytz
    Participant

    Turx knew people were blaming him (someone had asked the anti-Semitism question in an accusing way the day before), and phrased the question explicitly to make clear he was not blaming Trump. But Trump didn’t listen to the question (or let him finish it) and instead assumed it was blaming him, like the question from the day before. That’s one reason why Turx refused to criticize him — he sympathizes with Trump for being falsely accused of anti-Semitism in the past.

    #1219498

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Zahava’s Dad: “Turx did not IMO do anything wrong. I saw the same video everyone else did”

    ZD – + 1 googol for being dan l’kaf zchus!

    #1219499

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Avram: DY’s underlying point is that Trump is the President of the United States. So even if he’s wrong and the Jew right, the Jew shouldn’t antagonise him, even unwittingly and unintentionally, since he’s the head of our government. (Or even if he were merely an influential governmental official.)

    If that were his point, then his problem should have been with attendence at the press conference at all – not the question itself. Once called on (and did he really expect to be called on?), what should he have done? Refuse to speak?

    Also, would you hold this same way if it were the previous president we were discussing?

    #1219500

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    DaasYochid,

    You shouldn’t be so surprised that Trump reacted the way he did. That’s who he is.

    I wasn’t surprised.

    #1219501

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Who here ever said that the question was antagonistic?

    DaasYochid did. He wrote:

    From a journalistic perspective, perhaps, but it’s not a good idea to antagonize the president, especially since we know how volatile Trump is.

    The fact that the second part of the question needed a disclaimer should have been reason enough not to ask it at all.

    Fair to assume that DaasYochid feels that the question was antagonistic.

    #1219502

    Joseph
    Participant

    Avram, you’re correct. He probably shouldn’t have been there asking questions. And the same would apply to the previous (or any previous) President.

    #1219503

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Joseph

    “He probably shouldn’t have been there asking questions. “

    I asked you this earlier, you replied “no, being quiet wouldn’t result in a c”H in such a case”

    do you really not think the idea that Jews shouldnt ask questions at all, even easy “non-antagonistic” has the possibility of causing chilul Hashem as well

    If word got out I can see the headline:

    JEWISH REPORTERS REFUSE to TAKE PART in PRESS CONFERENCE

    # do they respect the president?

    # What are they hiding?

    Arguably this would cause a bigger chillul Hashem than a reporter clearly being misunderstood by a President who is known to not be playing with a full deck

    #1219504

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Joseph,

    He probably shouldn’t have been there asking questions. And the same would apply to the previous (or any previous) President.

    Ok. So “lechatchila” you think that a frum reporter should not attend a press conference held by the President. But, “bedieved”, what should a frum reporter do if called upon by the President?

    #1219505

    Joseph
    Participant

    ubiq, we don’t need to issue a press release that we’re not participating in the press conference or avoiding questions. The “Jewish way” in interacting with secular governments has traditionally be to work amicably with them mostly behind the scenes. The potus won’t be offended if we don’t send a “reporter” to grill him on live television.

    Avram, why any bdieved? Just find a better job than to publicly grill the head of our government. That isn’t a yiddishe midda. If he had to ask a question, I guess he could ask “Mr. President, how have you been able to accomplish so much good in so little time?”

    🙂

    #1219506

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “grill him”

    you are really streching. He lobbed an easy low ball question About anti-semitism.

    “”Mr. President, how have you been able to accomplish so much good in so little time?”

    and if Trump had replied “How dare you accuse me of not being able to accomplish a lot, of course I could the most qualified person ot ever be elected by the largest electoral and popular margins in histroy, typical media asking trick questions…”

    That too would have been a chilul Hashem

    And if He didnt ask a question and Trump said “look at the Jew who wont ask a question”

    that too would have been a chilul Hashem

    etc etc

    #1219507

    Joseph
    Participant

    Which is why I suggested a Yid shouldn’t be a member of the press corps altogether. Members of the press in America are essentially expected to grill him. Let the nochrim do that.

    #1219508

    FuturePOTUS
    Participant

    To back up Joseph: There’s a concept called ‘A Jew in Galus,’ and we have to act it. We’re not in the world in this historical era to take the spotlight. Whenever such things happened in history, it has never turned out well for us. We need to know our place in this world, and act it.

    #1219509

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    If a non Jew said that Jews shouldn’t be reporters, you’d call him an anti-Semite.

    #1219510

    yytz
    Participant

    Eh, in the case of the original Joseph, Yosef haTzaddik, it turned out quite nicely…

    #1219511

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    YYTZ: “It was not a Chillul Hashem. On the contrary, it raised the visibility of the issue of growing anti-Semitism as an issue of national and international concern, highlighted the growing prominent of frum Jews in America, and gave Turx a chance to make a Kiddush Hashem by responding to Trump’s non-answer/attack with good middos, refusing to criticize the president even though he needlessly humilitated him.

    People shouldn’t let their pro-Trump partisanship or personal aesthetic preferences cloud their judgment and make them want to publicly heap scorn on a fellow Yid.

    YWN should be ashamed of itself for allowing so many hateful comments against Turx on the comments section of its news article about him. There’s no way all that lashon hara and motzei shem ra is appropriate for a frum site. Maybe the gedolim who tried to ban the Internet were right.”

    + 1 googol

    #1219512

    Joseph
    Participant

    If a non-Jew said that Jews shouldn’t be sold cheeseburgers, you’d call him an anti-Semite.

    Yosef didn’t challenge Pharoh by publicly questioning him.

    #1219513

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Moderators: Maybe this thread should be deleted? The whole thread is dedicated to speaking about a specific Jewish person. How is that okay?

    #1219514

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Joseph and FuturePOTUS,

    I understand the concept you describe. My problem, however, is in defining “taking the spotlight” by the response rather than the act. If the CR was around 2500 years ago, would you be castigating Mordechai for arousing the wrath of Haman against the Jews? What business did he have hanging around the palace “taking the spotlight” anyway? And in this case, had the President responded magnanimously and rationally to the question, would this thread exist?

    #1219515

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    zahavasdad,

    Someone explained it to me as this.

    Alot of people are blaming Trump for increasing Anti-Semitism , which Turx did not know. When Turx asked the question, Trump took it differnetly thinking Turx was blaming him for Anti-Semitism, which is not what Turx meant

    I think Turx knew very well that “people” were blaming Trump for an increase in anti-Semitism, and purposely tried to assure the President that he did not agree with the accusation. I think his question was an attempt to give the President an opportunity to undercut those accusations. Rather than taking the opportunity, the President poured gasoline on the issue and lit a match.

    #1219516

    Joseph
    Participant

    Bad comparison. Refusing to bow down to a getchke, even if that brings the spotlight, is the correct thing to do.

    The point here is that Yidden should go *out of their way* to avoid a situation which can even mistakenly and unfairly result in a negative reaction among high officials towards Yidden. And being a member of the press corps questioning the leader of the free world certainly has the potential to trigger that, even unwittingly.

    That a national leader would react unfairly should be taken into consideration beforehand.

    #1219517

    yytz
    Participant

    LU: You have a point, but the comment section on one of the YWN news articles about Turx is 1000 times worse than anything said in this thread (and it even seems like people are sockpuppeting there, using several accounts by the same person to say more or less the same insulting and/or false things over and over again.) Those comments all need to be deleted, if they haven’t been already.

    No known sock puppets in this thread

    #1219518

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Bad comparison. Refusing to bow down to a getchke, even if that brings the spotlight, is the correct thing to do.

    Absolutely, I certainly would never think that that was the issue. I was talking about the fact that Mordechai spent a lot of time near the king’s gates, which increased the potential for publicity and a negative reaction. He could have stayed home and not bowed to the getchke.

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