What is a Yeshiva Education Worth to You?

My parents always say tuition goes first. My tuition was more that 15,000 and thank Gd, baruch Hashem my parents we able to afford it every year. Yeshiva ed. Is SO important!! It made me who I am. If u really can’t afford it the school WILL understand….

The Chazon Ish said, sell your last pillow to pay tuition.

Tuition was always hard for us. My husband is a teacher, and I was at home raising my children, and then got evening jobs when my husband was home with the kids, once they were a little older. It was never enough and we were on scholarship every year. BUT – I also volunteered a lot of my free time to the school,especially around the time of the annual dinner and when they held their annual bazaar. In fact, I volunteered the services of my husband and all the age appropriate children in our family, besides my own time. Ona weekly basis for many, many years, we also picked up the bread and cake left over by a local bakery, which was being donated to the Yeshivah for the bochurim’s breakfast. This was something they could not get many parents to commit to doing, because frankly, it was a pain in the neck to have that achrayus every Monday night, but we did it, because the school had been good to us.

ames, gut gefregt!

How many people who are in their own business prepared to be totally honest with the scholarship committee? For that matter, why does tuition cost SJSnyc $12-15000 per child when the COMBINED tuition for my two grandchildren in Staten Island is $15,000?

One of the reasons that my daughter chose S.I. was because tution at Merkaz Hatorah was half the tuition of Yeshivas suburban areas.

The suburban school district where I live educates 4900 students, maintains a high school, middle school, 5 elementary schools, an outdoor athletic complex ( football, soccer,baseball, tennis,track ) 25 varsity and 15 junior varsity teams, a band, and a full range of labs and academic courses. In addition, the district provides free bus transportation to any school age child to any school ( including yeshivas ) within 20 miles. They do all this at a cost of $14,900 per child. Why should a yeshiva that provides a fraction of these services charge the same or more? ( I know yeshivas carry a double schedule but they don’t provide anything near the teacher pay scale or benefits that the district does ).

cantor, it is assur to even enter a conservative church.

not so pushut, joseph.

i remember seeing a rav moshe somewhere on this. he was asked if it’s muttar to teach children in a conservative shul and he answered that it’s not assur, but if there’s another choice it’s better not because of “kedoshim tihyu.” he wouldn’t answer the question, though – he sent them to Philadelphia to ask the rabbonim there. (i think there was a second question too, like if the building had a separate entrance or something. can’t remember – look it up.)

There’s a difference between teaching in a conservative building if given autonomy (and entering just the education wing for those who are machmir) and acting as chazzan. Re Cantoresque, no shame in asking for a tuition break under the circumstances.

There are those who mattir teaching in a conservative synagogue, but it’s definitely something discouraged even by the mattirim. I assume nobody would tell you to get a job there to pay tuition.

But yes, plenty of people to cheat the tuition committees, which is why they have become so mch more invasive now. One of my rabbeim mentioned that in a certain school, someone came in to the tuition meeting driving a jalopy and listing his address as a run-down building. turns out he owned the building in question, and borrowed the car from his janitor. When confronted, he paid the full tuition, and later gave the school a large donation.

Yeshivas are a necessity. They definitely come before paying for kollel.

In respose to tzippi’s suggestion that I ask for a tuition break, I’m not eligible. My wife and I make a combined six figure income. But we bought our house at the top of the market, and have a big mortgage (not a big house, just a big mortgage). We can’t re-finance it as we’re upside down given the reverses in the market. Additionally, in times of less income, we did accumulate considerable debt, which we’re are paying off. But on paper, given our incomes, the yeshiva would not give us a break. There are others in worse shape than us seeking the breaks.

Six figures disqualifies you? Six figures, like 103,000 doesn’t go too far.

SJS, I am not shocked. That was my point exactly to the poster who seemed to imply that in that school, parents with a six figure income weren’t eligible for a scholarship.

And BTW, what leads many people to leave or not start out with kollel is the preference for the mother to stay at home, or be there for an important chunk of time.

Of course it doesn’t cost 12-15K per child. Your tuition figure is a result of the yeshiva administration’s decision to make a “pay by income” system. Most yeshivos do this. If we assume that 50% of parents are going to ask for a tuition break, then we need to make up the money from the other parents. Raising the bar means that you are forced to pay for others unless you want to show your books. I think this above all else gets peoples’ ire up, especially since yeshivos are far from forthright about their own balance sheets.

Do the math – even if yeshivos pay great wages and have medium sized classes, cost per child can be kept to $7K or less. But they don’t pay great, and classes are often oversized. So tuition could be even less. Don’t argue with me about this until you can prove otherwise with numbers. Do the math. Anything on top of the actual per child cost is forced subsidy of other children. This is unfortunate because 1) Parents should told that they are subsidizing because of EMES 2) Parents should be told that they are subsidizing so that they will be able to count the amount of the subsidy as tax deductible and 3) Parents are forced to open up their books to the yeshiva administration even if they are willing to pay what should be considered full tuition.

In other words, since yennem is not paying tuition and you are forced to subsidize, you are forced to open your books even if you can pay what it costs for your child and no more.

My suggestion about revamping the current administration system (which I have posted about twice here) should be taken seriously as a way to reduce costs and bring honesty and Rabbinic oversight to our yeshivos. This would help with keeping yeshiva affordable and sustainable.

It would be so nice if I could blame the high tutiion cost on Kollel families who get a reduction. But the truth is the school my children attend has no kollel families in it. (although it should now be obvious that a critical mass of kollel yngeleit is something the community can no longer afford to subsidize). Indeed the school does a remarkable job at fundraising and recently put up a 35,000 square foot building without implementing a building fund or any other surcharge. It doesn’t have a mandatory dinner, nor does is there a counterfeit money . . .er scrip obligation. I would be shocked to learn of any fiscal dishonesty on the part of the administration. The fact is that it costs money, a lot of money to educate children. The other fact, is I don’t know for how long I’ll be able to afford it. So something’s got to give.

squeak, how do the Chasidishe Yeshiva’s have (relatively speaking) dirt cheap tuition rates? Even Chaim Berlin’s (etc.) “rack rates” are below your assumptions.

Joseph, certain yeshivot charge less because they offer less. I have a number of friends who send their children to a certain school in my area simply because it’s cheaper. These people know that the school offers a sub-stanfard secular education than other options, but feel they have no choice. I for one would not send my children to that school. My decision is not based on the sub-standard secular education, but rather my sense of integrity. The school in question has a television contract that all parents are required to sign. Many who sign it, maintain their televisions despite their commitment to not have one. Certain other families do that and also lie about their lifestyle. The wives have a sheitle to wear to school events, but otherwise go with their hair uncovered. I have two televisions in my home and do not hide it. My wife does not cover her hair, except in schul, and I make no pretense about it. I see no point in lying or pretneding to be something I am not in order to send my children to yeshiva. Should it come to it, I’d rather officiate in a Conservative synagogue, tell my children that I have no choice but to compromise my religious obervance in this way in order to send them to yeshiva, than lie; something that cannot be justified or explained to children so that it makes sense. My hope is that the honesty I display will carry the day. I hope you never have to make that choice. But I assure you if you do, I would never condemn you for your decision.

cantor, yet these Yeshiva’s that you state are offering less produce Bnei Torah of a far higher caliber than the high-priced schools you feel offer more. You may dispute this, yet it is a truism that deep down we both know is the case.

SJSinNYC I have been following some discussions here without posting and I totally agree with you about tuition. BUT do not think that by deciding to have less children it will improve your financial situation. A person is judged on Rosh Hashana how rich or poor he will be that year irrelevant of how many children he has.

Someone came to the Steipler Zt”l and said that he does not want anymore children, he has enough problems with the three kids he has. The Steipler answered him that a person gets a certain amount of tzoros in his lifetime so either you will have your alot tzoros from three kids or your tzoros can be spread out amongst five six or seven kids hence each problem is smaller and less painful since there are more of them. But a HKB”H does not decide how many tzoros a person will have by the number of children he has.

Remember the words of Chazal “Bo tinoik le’oilam vekitzva beyadoi.

To answer the above thread topic-a yeshiva education is worth our heritage. In my profession, the MAIN distinction between those who have a solid link to their Jewish Heritage, and those that worry daily whether their kids will marry someone Jewish, is the education they received.

The overwhelming majority of jewish children that receive a jewish education, and I would venture to say, 99.9% of those children that receive an authentic Torah education do not have to worry about the future lineage of their family.

I don’t have enough room here to expound on the countless stories I have of families who lament over the fact that they didn’t send their children to a Jewish Torah day school. The regret is enormous, and the pain they live with is sometimes immeasurable.

My humble suggestion to those out their who are eeking out the money to pay for tuition, and especially those that cut back on cleaning help and extras, the dividends for that are eternal. It’s worth every ounce of effort, and if we put forth the effort truly l’shem shomayim Hashem will make sure that we will give the guarantors of His Torah that which we promised thousands of years ago.

cantoresq-I see how important a Torah education is to you and your family. I don’t really know you or your total picture, but I would suggest strongly that you do not go to a Conservative synagogue as a cantor.

Hashlech al Hashem ye’hvacha v’Hu ye’chalkelecha. Hashem can do anything-Surely Hashem sees your sincerity and I give you a brocha that you not have to compromise your religious standards.

From Coke Classic topic:

gavra_at_work

Member

I don’t understand. Why does Kollel mean not paying full tuition?

According to economic theory, the ones who need the product the most will pay the most for it (Demand curve). As such, since the kollel families are the ones who are least likely to send their children to public school, the yeshivas should charge them more and they will have to pay it, as opposed to the non-kollel families who have another choice (public school, breakaways (since they have capital to start up a new school) or homeschooling (as one parent may not work, or it may not be worthwhile due to tuition payments)?

Just a pet peeve of mine, even though it will never happen.

side point: we have no idea whos learing is more chashuv in the eyes of Hashem, and it would be terrible to tell anyone that they can’t sit and learn if they want to do so.

Posted 5 days ago #