What is mandated in NY for private schooling

ZD, source?

ZD, source?

almost anyone who works in special ed in any public school could verify that

ZD: your definition of inadequate is based on your interpretation. Of course it’s not clear-cut, and that’s one of the reasons the city or county can try to fight private special-Ed placement. For example if a kid speaks only Yiddish at home and the county doesn’t provide Yiddish services would you say such an education is appropriate for a child with very limited learning capabilities? I want your personal opinion, not just the legalese as you’ve come out very strongly against your co-religionists on this issue and it’s truly disheartening.

Unfortunately even in the city it is very difficult to fight the board of Ed. because they have “unlimited” resources to appeal even when they do lose. So you’d need to pay exorbitant tuition and legal fees while your case snails through the court system. Yet at the end of the day — or very often school year — you don’t know whether you’ll get reimbursed. And they make you go through this fight EVERY SINGLE year.

Many people moved to KJ just so their Down Syndrome child can get the education they need and deserve. We are dealing with a self centered teachers’ union pulling the strings, crazy beureacracy and at least a touch of anti-semitism even in NYC.

On the other hand KJ seems to be doing very well with their public school district. And despite many naysayers around here, they do it all LEGALLY. So paradoxically we need to be more isolated (segregated?) and collectively smart to achieve fairness. And then we get backlash for doing just that. Anybody interested in starting a thread about the Monroe annexation issue?

According to the NY State Education Department website:

State-funded programs and services include: Health Services, Homebound Instruction, Textbook Loan Program, Computer Software Loan Program, School Library Materials Loan Program, Transportation (students must reside within 15 miles of the nonpublic school), Special Education Services, Dual Enrollment Programs, and Mandated Services Reimbursement.

So these are the things that are paid for. However, not everything is given to the school. For example, Special Education may be offered in the Public school system. The reasoning is that in the public school, they already have the necessary people on staff, and it won’t cost them much if another kid comes in. Private schools tend to have less need, and it would cost far more than it does in public school. Busing is another good example. They provide transportation, but it doesn’t have to be door-to-door service. They can require centralized bus-stops to cut down on the costs. This may mean some kids have to walk a bit to a bus-stop, and a parent may need to walk with them and supervise the bus-stop until the kids are picked up.

NPS mandated services from the website petition: transportation, textbooks, computer hardware and software, special education services, etc.

link removed

In regard to Special Ed that ZD DOESN’T know

1)As a “special ed” parent, it was cheaper for district doing it in Frum school than spending the money in the Public School. My child wasn’t “bused” to KJ

2) It’s cheaper for district to accept the fact that they may lose in a court appeal of Special Ed services and have to pay legal and other costs etc.

3)After speaking with many respected health professionals, the standard that ERSCD Special Education uses is anyway a flawed one and should be corrected.

mammle my definition of inadequte is not MY definition, I know people very close to me who worked for the NYC board of ed in the special ed depaprtment and they know what will pass for inadequte and what will not. We have had many conversations over this topic

Mods

Please fix “if you will” to “if you win”

Done. For future reference, you can edit your own posts within 25 minutes of posting.

Just to make clear, I never said or intended to even imply that any election wasnt free or fair. As far as I know all the elections have been on the up and up and that we also live in a democracy where we have majority rules and protections for the minority (Jews usually need protections from being minorities in most places, otherwise laws could be passed to hurt jews like Blue Laws or needed laws to protect sabbath observance)

ZD,

“And you have to go to an a beaurocrat who thinks religous schools are nonsense and when they refuse you have to convince a arbritor that private schools are better than public schools and again many of them do not belive in relgious schools and certainly do not believe in segregated schools (in the relgious sense)”

The special education that is provided in separate schools for the most part are for children with severe disabilities. Including leaning, physical and emotional disabilities. I have dealt with a good number of excellent special education schools/programs run by orthodox Jews. A number run by chasidim. Not one of them was a segregated school. They all services both boys and girls. I have never seen a segregated program. The school in KJ service both Genders, I know several schools in Boro Park and Williamsburg that are run by Chasidim with beards and peyos and their schools have both boys and girls in the classes.

Your assumption that the reason why Jewish Parents want other options than the public schools for their children is because they want gender segregation is a specious assumption without any basis in fact or reality.

Every district is required to education all special ed children , not just frum ones

Nobody’s coming even close to saying otherwise.

i would be shocked to find that it costs less for a special ed child to be educated by a private school, unless you are talking about adding a child to a system that is already n place.

I have been sitting thru countless meetings where parents (of all religions and cultures)are trying to get their children placed into private schools for any number of reasons and find professionals to fight their case. Sometimes it is in the childs best interest and sometimes it isnt. Sometimes it may be best for the child culturally, but that is not an obligation the state must cover. I don’t think language or religion are good enough reasons to make a state cover a childs placement if they can service them educationally.

Nisht – when you said that it is cheaper (from the situations you spoke of), do you mean that the amount of tuition alocated by their district is less then we would actually need for their education, or do you mean that the amount they themselves spend per kid when servicing them is less?

Thoughts?

Why are they below average? Who says throwing money at it will help? These are all issues a duly elected board has a duty and right to decide, without a “monitor”, who may or may not represent the views of the electorate, who can overrule legitimate decisions.

GAW: I’m sorry but I don’t know exactly what’s mandated. And I’ll continue to bring up locations because as far as I know the law to accommodate special Ed students is not exactly clear-cut. So it boils down sometimes to doing things only based on dry law or “mit gefeel”. And some school districts unfortunately try to skirt the law and give Jewish special Ed kids “bubkes”

So in Williamsburg for example there is a Yiddish/Jewish special Ed class based in a public school, while East Ramapo did not want to provide such accomodation. I don’t have the time to look it up now, but there was an online column (by Aron Wieder of Monsey IIRC) on this topic which was very informative a year or two ago.

As to your question of taking the cheapest option that’s minimally adequate, I could flip it and say the same for regular public education. If drama lessons for example, despite being helpful for self esteem — and it may even be a career option — are cost prohibitive, why should it not be cut?

And ZD: I don’t think many students from East Ramapo’s public school system are planning to attend Ivy League colleges, for many reasons, so you’re not making a good argument there. What, for example is the graduation rate in East Ramapo public schools? I’d assume most public school kids there that go on to college would choose a community college. And I’m not a racist, it usually boils down to dollars and cents and it’s definitely a poor district.

NY state has a website for graduation rates for all high schools in the state, you can google it

Ramapo High School has a 63% graduation rate in 2014

Edward R Murrow A high School in Flatbush Brooklyn graduation rate is 81% (I dont know the name of the High School in Williamsburg or Boro Park, but Ive passed Murrow many times so I know that one and its in a jewish park of Brooklyn)

Harvard if you can get into it does not make cost an issue, their endowment is large enough to pay for any student who cannot afford it (Its the only Ivy League School like that)

Most colleges have some sort of financial planning so not everyone has to go to a community college, the City and State universities are fairly inexepensive and good

ZD,

“Ramapo High School has a 63% graduation rate in 2014

Edward R Murrow A high School in Flatbush Brooklyn graduation rate is 81% (I dont know the name of the High School in Williamsburg or Boro Park, but Ive passed Murrow many times so I know that one and its in a jewish park of Brooklyn)”

What is your point? Did you consider the demographics of the two schools? In ER well over 90% of the student body is Hispanic and Black who were not born in the U.S. There is a huge percentage who are ESL track. There is even a large number who have just arrived in the U.S. At 16+ years of age who show up to just a few classes and then don’t finish because they don’t know English and intend on finding jobs right away. The chancellor pointed this out, but the activists got upset because it wasn’t politically correct even though it was factual.

That is really what he the greatest impact on graduation rates along with parent apathy.

GAW,

“Nisht – when you said that it is cheaper (from the situations you spoke of), do you mean that the amount of tuition alocated by their district is less then we would actually need for their education, or do you mean that the amount they themselves spend per kid when servicing them is less?”

The school board pays less to the private school than it costs to provide the same services in the public school. It also costs the private school less for the same services, they don’t have all the union costs which would be crippling.

The private school is not making money on this since their reimbursement is based on the CFR filed with SED. In addition the private school provides yeshiva classes as well, which are not paid by the ERCSD. Unfortunately for the school, the parents of the overwhelming majority parents do not have anywhere near the resources to pay for the costs of the Yeshiva part of the education. Which is not covered at all by the district. The school still provides for these children and has to beg for funds to remain a viable institution. No one is making money lay off these schools. But there are many people who lose sleep and are under constant stress to make sure that the school remains open for the children. Outing their personal health and resources at risk.

Student Loan crisis is from people who insist on dorming to out of state schools that cost $40-$50K a year and the jobs they get nowhere pay what they will get in a job

SUNY or CUNY in state tution is about $6000 a year

nisht – thanks for the info. Here the district may pay about $65,000 to a different district because that was the determined price of “tuitioning out” but they don’t actually spend that much per kid in house. They have so many more kids and staff tho, so it’s hard to know exactly. I think the outgoing payment is definitely more than they would have spent. The exception would be some of the really high needs kids, or the kids tuitioned to fancy private schools with huge price tags.

(Our frum schools don’t have sped so I don’t know what it would cost. I do know that any sped program opening would need to start by adding a room to an existing school so even $650,000 wouldn’t cut it.)

If you are talking about LD type kids who are generally serviced in the classroom but require a part time push-in teacher and therapists, that would be a lot cheaper but would probably never ever get approved for funding.

“Student Loan crisis is from people who insist on dorming to out of state schools that cost $40-$50K a year and the jobs they get nowhere pay what they will get in a job

SUNY or CUNY in state tution is about $6000 a year”

I thought you said that ERCSD has to get the kids into Ivy League schools.

I also find it oddly ironic that years ago towns surrounding Monsey/Spring Valley formed their own villages so as not to be together with minorities (and have better funded schools as these communities are richer) while the Orthodox Jews are blamed for the public school’s lack of funds; especially since many of us are not exactly well-off financially.

ZD,

“The kids in this class religion doesnt really matter as they are lower functioning”

That is a dad’s perspective? That religion really doesn’t matter because your child is lower functioning?

And yet there are many agencies with residential programs that were started by parents becUse they were concerned about the religious perspective even if their child was lower or almost completely non functioning. I know of several such agencies.