November 23, 2011 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #600787kfbParticipant
Can someone explain to me what the hashkafa at this yeshiva is? Who do they follow and why do they do things different than the mainstream?November 23, 2011 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #841136kgh5771Participant
I think you mean “Rabbi Chait”…November 24, 2011 5:45 am at 5:45 am #841137
If you are talking about Yeshiva Bnai Torah, YBT, then that would Hellenism.
They are about the intellect conquering all – reason above everything. They have a strong dislike of anything too religious (as defined by them). They are against using emotions, except when they disagree with you, then they will get all hot telling you how you are being emotional. Happened to me after I asked a simple question and the rabbi did not know the answer. Maybe he did not understand the question, could have been my bad communication. Either way, there was no need for personal attacks. I almost laughed in his face – hearing him getting all emotional and yelling at me that I was being emotional. Such irony.November 24, 2011 5:53 am at 5:53 am #841138old manParticipant
Wow, that is some indictment of a yeshiva. I would hope someone from that yeshiva can come to its defense.November 24, 2011 6:36 am at 6:36 am #841139Sam2Participant
They are pure Maimonedians. From the Yad to the Moreh.November 24, 2011 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm #841140apushatayidParticipant
hashkafa rule number 1. spell his name correctly
rule number 2. ignore personal attacks and invective from anonymous bloggers.November 24, 2011 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #841141AbellehParticipant
MDG: You might want to check out the Rambam’s 4th Perek of Hilchos Teshuva. Lashon Harah about large groups of people/organizations is really awful.November 24, 2011 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #841142
Wow, that is some indictment of a yeshiva. I would hope someone from that yeshiva can come to its defense.
Why do you hope that? Is there some sort of rule that if call yourself a “yeshiva,” it means you are frum?November 24, 2011 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #841143apushatayidParticipant
Is there a rule that says if someone claims the hashkafa of a yeshiva is hellenism it must be accepted at face value?November 24, 2011 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #841144
Is there a rule that says if someone claims the hashkafa of a yeshiva is hellenism it must be accepted at face value?
Nope.November 24, 2011 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #841145
I regret having written any personal attacks. After I wrote it, I was hoping the mods would have erased that.
If you would like a more objective view, go to the yeshiva’s web site, YBT dot org, and judge for your self. If you want to hear what the students there feel, go to a site run by them, mesora dot org. Ask your Rav about what is written there.
They are pure Maimonedians. From the Yad to the Moreh.
Maybe philosophically. They like the Rambam, but so do a lot of others. Rav Hirsch, in the 19 Letters, points out that the Reform in his day said that they were following the Rambam.November 25, 2011 2:25 am at 2:25 am #841146irMember
If your inquiry is to determine whether or not it is right for you or your family members, then it is strongly recommended that you discuss it privately with your rav, or someone who may know you and YBT. Hatzlocha vebrocha.December 9, 2011 2:47 am at 2:47 am #841147whatelseisleftMember
I know a BUNCH of people from YBT and i would not describe any of them like that at all!December 9, 2011 3:52 am at 3:52 am #841148oomisParticipant
I know many people from YBT and they are fine, ehrliche Yidden – all of them learned, all of them earning parnassah mostly while learning in the mornings. While I do not personally subscribe to their particular hashkafa, to malign them on a public forum is despicable. HELLENISM???? Seriously?????December 9, 2011 4:39 am at 4:39 am #841149
While I do not personally subscribe to their particular hashkafa, to malign them on a public forum is despicable. HELLENISM???? Seriously?????
Well, that depends on what they hold, doesn’t it?December 9, 2011 5:38 am at 5:38 am #841150
“Well, that depends on what they hold, doesn’t it? “
Maybe, but not in this case. oomis is right.December 9, 2011 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #841151
“Well, that depends on what they hold, doesn’t it? “
Maybe, but not in this case. oomis is right.
You mean you are saying that you know what they hold. Ok, maybe that is your opinion based on your information then.
I happen to have no information in this case, which is why I didn’t post anything.December 9, 2011 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #841152
popa- I have no information nor do I have any idea what their hashkafos are. But this is a matter of opinion. So unless someone knows they are 100% right they have no business maligning them on a public forum. Because only God knows whats right in the end. This is not a discussion based on fact. It’s based on opinion which everyone is entitled to have and share. But unless you (well not you specifically, but e/o else) know your opinion is 100% right, which you don’t, don’t go pretending it’s fact.December 10, 2011 11:36 pm at 11:36 pm #841153
cinderalla: I do not think I ascribe to your notions of fact and opinion.December 10, 2011 11:49 pm at 11:49 pm #841154
Popa- Like I said before, everybody’s entitled to his/hers own opinionDecember 11, 2011 1:04 am at 1:04 am #841156
Entitled (in this case) is a natural right. No matter what the situation everyone is bound to have their own opinion and thats natural because everybody thinks a different way.
A fact is the truth. Something that happened or something that is. An opinion is your interpretation of the fact. They may all be valid but only the fact is true. If we disagree on what is true then that is our opinion which we are all entitled to. We can think that that is the fact but that is our opinion as well. Which is why we shouldn’t pretend to be right when we are basing our opinion on what we think. Because everybody thinks differently and therefore everybody has a different interpretation of the fact. Stubborn people or people who refuse to listen to what everybody else has to say believe that their opinion is fact.
And it’s definitely ok to express your opinion. Everybody does. I am doing it right now. But when it comes to something as serious as calling a certain hashkafa hellenism it should not be presented as a fact but rather an opinion. IMHO, it should not be said at all.December 11, 2011 1:33 am at 1:33 am #841158
Okay then. So what right would you say ‘entitled’ is?December 11, 2011 1:52 am at 1:52 am #841160
But you realize that right now you’re expressing your opinion.December 11, 2011 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #841162oomisParticipant
“I happen to have no information in this case, which is why I didn’t post anything. Except that I think one of my roshei yeshiva was talking about them once, and seemed to think they were way off the spectrum”
Re-read your first line. it is the most important thing you wrote. Your particular R”Y’s personal opinion is just that – his opinion, and he may think as he pleases. But that is not a reason for you to assume his opinion is correct, and “way off the spectrum” does not equate with Hellenism (though you did not call them that). They might march to the beat of a slightly different drummer, but they are nonetheless marching to a Torah beat.
They do seem to intellectualize quite a lot, but they certainly are unquestionably shomrei Torah u”mitzvos, from what I have observed. They do not typically dress in the Yeshivish style, but the women cover their hair, go to mikveh, and they all keep Shabbos and kashrus, send their kids to yeshivah, and support Torah learning as other frum Jews do.
Think what you will, no one has control over your thoughts. But IMO it is wrong for any of us to write such disparaging things on a publicly read forum, about people who are frum but different from you. And if any YBT talmidim read this column, I hope they answer these comments. Maybe their hashkafa is not 100% exactly the same as my hashkafa, but they are certainly within the confines of halachic observance.December 11, 2011 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #841164ItcheSrulikMember
What, can’t you tell by the color of the students’ shirts?December 11, 2011 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #841165shecker613Member
For all of you who have nothing better to do but bash on YBT, I think you need to sit yourselves down and do some self evaluation. If you claim to be Shomer Torah and Mitzvos, then you are quite mistaken. To publicly bash another Yeshiva based on your own opinion or on what you heard from your Rebbi is quite ridiculous. Its complete lashon Hara and no true Eved Hashem would ever do that. What ever you know or think you have heard is probably false. The are completely 100% Shomer Torah and Mitzvot. I have learned in their beis medresh on many occasions. They are Yiddin just like the rest of us. They may not wear black and white but who the heck cares. What is important is that they dedicate there lives to Torah and Mitzvot and do everything in accordance with halacha. A number of their Alumni spend half their days learning Torah and half the day working. I can tell you one thing for sure; if they ever had an issue with a yeshiva or did not agree with its hashkafa, they would never publicly bash it. So for all of you who have nothing better to do but to bash on yeshivas other then your own, maybe you should be spending time learning Torah and the importance of guarding your tongue, especially when you do not know what you are talking about.December 12, 2011 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #841168cherrybimParticipant
Rabbi Chait is a tzadik and a talmud chochem.December 12, 2011 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #841169
I don’t like being ignorant. So I’m reading some of the essays on their website.
I just skimmed through “Torah from Sinai” by Rabbi Chait, and it seemed spot on. I’ll keep you updated.December 12, 2011 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #841170
I am second guessing what I posted, since I can’t clearly remember what I heard. So I’m asking the mods to remove my posts on this thread.
I have no opinion on this issue whatsoever.December 12, 2011 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #841171JotharMember
Check their hashkafah.com web page and decide if their hashkafos are correct.December 12, 2011 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #841172TheTrollMember
Definately a very choshuv person!
but any teacher who doesn’t know an answer to a question should say so, not change the subject or get personal,
I think this teacher needs looking intoDecember 12, 2011 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #841174
I never said which rabbi there it was.
MODS – this discussion is going no where, mainly because of my unneeded L”H. For that, I am very remorseful. Can you please close the discussion?December 12, 2011 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #841175JWGMember
YBT from a Talmid
I have heard it all from the first days I learned in YBT. We were Kofrim, Logicians, Not Really Frum, and so on and so forth.
I am not sure what criteria some of you are using to define Torah Judaism, but lets start with some basics. If you agree that knowing that Hashem gave us the Torah at Sinai, that we have in our hands the commandments and body of laws (i.e. Halacha) he gave us there, that we are obligated to follow this body of law, and we do not have the right to change, add or subtract from those laws, then YBT is squarely and absolutely Torah Judaism. The rest, as they say, is commentary.
Finally, if you really think that Rabbi Chait or any of his musmachim are violating Halacha, then the correct forum for this accusation is in a Beis Din, not as anonymous postings on a web site.December 13, 2011 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #841176lkwdfellowMember
JWG – just want to point out that HaRav Aharon Feldman – the Rosh Hayeshiva of Yeshivas Ner Yisroel – is the author of “The Juggler and the King”.December 13, 2011 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #841177JWGMember
ldwdfellow – thanks, I read the book many years ago and just looked up who the author was for reference to any who might want to read it.January 3, 2012 12:43 am at 12:43 am #841178
I have been following this thread with great interest and am more than a little confused. The discussion began by ‘kfb” asking for someone to explain the hashkafa at a given yeshiva. What ensued, however, was a bunch of unsupported comments about the yeshiva in question, its rosh yeshiva, its talmidim and an unnamed rebbi. I assume that nobody participating in this forum would choose or reject a shiduch or a doctor based on unsubstantiated assertions of this type. Why should any of us, then, draw conclusions about what may otherwise be a very fine makom Torah based on these comments?
Can anyone point to something specific that has been said, written or done by any memeber of this institution that is not in accordance with a legitimate position in our seforim hakedoshim?January 3, 2012 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #841179A Woman Outside BrooklynParticipant
It would almost be funny if the original post wasn’t even referring to YBT. There are a lot of Chaits.January 3, 2012 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #841180microMember
Rabbi Chait is a tremendous talmid chochom! nuff saidJanuary 3, 2012 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #841181
I don’t think “nuff said”. is going to cut it. This discussion was about much more than Rabbi Chait’s qualifications as a Talmid Chocham it was about hist talmidim and his yeshiva. It is wrong for people to anonymously vilify others and offer no real evidence for their condemnations.January 3, 2012 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #841182
The more I think about this the more incensed I become. In the wake of these postings I have checked out this yeshiva and its talmidim and they are nothing less than respectable bnei Torah in a respectable makom Torah. See for yourselves. Check out their website ybt.org and listen to a Gemorah shiur from any of their magidei shiur. Can anyone tell me that these shiurim are not of the highest caliber and the type that could be heard in any top-notch yeshiva that enjoys name-recognition? As for the “hashkafa”, listen to the hashkafa shiurim. Are any of things said in those shiurim not things that are firmly rooted in legitimate mekoros? If you are still not satisfied, do what I did and visit the yeshiva and see how fine the boys/young men are who learn there. See their midos and their commitment to Torah and mitzvos. If you are looking for a sea of black hats you may be disappointed to also see grey hats, blue hats and even some no hats. If you are looking for erliche bnei Torah who can rival those in any other yeshiva, however, you will be very pleased.
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