October 21, 2021 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #2019554
Submit your ideas for the motivation to forbid Jews from entering. It isn’t because of covid, that is for certain. Not since the wicked Romans under emperor Hadrian were Jews banished from Yerushalayim. Are they afraid of an Anglo takeover?October 22, 2021 7:50 am at 7:50 am #2019604philosopherParticipant
As this is going on forever I’m wondering what those in charge are thinking. But let’s be honest here, they are shutting it down to non-Jewish tourists as well and while no one was allowed to enter, students, mainly Yeshiva students, were allowed in.
So yes, I think the Israeli government is horrible for shutting down the borders for 1.5 years, but it’s not about discrimination, it’s about their faulty thinking that they can make covid go away by shutting down the country and vaccinating.October 22, 2021 7:50 am at 7:50 am #2019605NoveltyParticipant
Interestingly enough, missionaries are being allowed in by the plane full…October 22, 2021 7:52 am at 7:52 am #2019611refoelzeevParticipant
Jews from all backgrounds are welcome to make aliyah to Israel, so you’re full of nonsense.October 22, 2021 10:45 am at 10:45 am #2019711
How can you make aliyah if you can’t even visit? Do you hear yourself? You expect people to immediately apply for citizenship without preparing?October 22, 2021 12:13 pm at 12:13 pm #2019731anonymous JewParticipant
I don’t know what you’re talking about. Several of my friends have been to Israel recently.October 22, 2021 12:14 pm at 12:14 pm #2019740
And are you foolish enough to justify not allowing Jews into Israel because they can make aliyah? I didn’t realize soviet era communism was back in style!October 22, 2021 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm #2019769
Shimon > It isn’t because of covid, that is for certain.
Shimon, I think this is their sneaky way not to allow people who think like above. I don’t think there is a mitzva of taki visiting Eretz Isroel while increasing their chance of getting some new variant … Better go visit North Korea while you have time on your hands, shake hands with Kim after coughing.October 23, 2021 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #2019893boruchbrown123Participant
Entering Israel is a zechus, not a right.
Feel such a strong pull to being there? Make aliya, as many thousands have during the Covid pandemic.October 23, 2021 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #2019945
And how can I make ‘aliyah’ if I can’t even visit? You have a shidduch, job, and dira set up for me? There actually is someone who I was supposed to go out with but couldn’t because I can’t go there.
Anonymous, I don’t care how many machers you know who were able to get in. I don’t have any relatives there. I haven’t found a way to enter.
You just don’t care about yenem, so it doesn’t bother you in the slightest as long as your friends are able to go.
Aaq, then why are Israelis allowed to come and go as they please? And I had covid and two vaccines. If you truly believe they are justified, then you are in the same kitah as those עריצים.
(And of course visiting Eretz Yisrael is a privilege, but it is not their right to decide who gets that privilege. They are gazlanim. Apparently, you have a thing for thieves.)October 24, 2021 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #2020190
Shimon, all countries treat citizens differently from visitors for COVID. They need to manage risk and this makes sense. The best way for you to visit Ey might be to enter yericho from Jordan, or hang out on the other side of Golan or litani River. This way you don’t need to deal with gazlanim and you will not expose Jews to extra virus.October 24, 2021 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #2020217RedlegParticipant
A couple of observations:
Concerning Aliyah vs visits. While tourism is closed for Jews and Gentiles alike (until Nov 1, maybe), making Aliyah is still possible, its just that that the consular requirements are involved, time consuming and a general pain.
The real problem is that closing Israel to foreign tourists makes no sense. Israelis are free to travel all over the world and return. Why is that less of a risk than allowing foreign tourists in?October 24, 2021 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #2020254
> Why is that less of a risk than allowing foreign tourists in?
All countries balance risk v. economy and voter satisfaction. Also, a country has certain obligations towards citizen. Every country does that, not just Israel. Practically speaking, you can hope that the citizen will go home and you can even ask him to stay home. The tourist will roam around immediately. Also, I believe Israelis returning from certain “red countries” are currently subject to quarantine.
Anyway, you can always argue on particulars of a particular decisions in each country, but that is why the countries have governments to make some reasonable decision, and you have a right to appeal to a court or vote in next election. You should not get too much upset every time you are not in a majority on an issue.
And, also, as R Meir Twersky wrote early on, politicians are bound by the desire to be re-elected, so Jews who value life more than economy and tourism should be more careful than they allow.October 24, 2021 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #2020263
Aaq, you sound like a parrot. You’re repeating yourself while ignoring my tshuva to your pirchaOctober 24, 2021 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #2020324
Shimon, I think I responded to your question: a country needs to limit movement to increase safety. So, they use priorities. Citizens allowed, others not. It is not so much that one is safer than the other, but they need to limit someone, and they start with outsiders. So, do other countries.October 24, 2021 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #2020327
I have a theory.
They realize that most foreign visitors are anglos. They know that most of those who visit on a regular basis are frum anglos. They simply see an opportunity to keep our frum Jews for as long as possible without negative repercussions.
I have always noticed a slight animosity towards frum people from abroad. They don’t want us. They want secular or very modern Americans to make aliyah. They are terrified of two things. One is that there will be more frum people. The second thing, which is the ikar is that they are afraid of an Anglo takeover. An influx of frum anglos establishing their own communities and increasing their presence would slowly create a major shift in Israeli culture. This detail is crucial. They spent decades being metamei everyone (to a certain subtle degree even the frum olam in Israel r”l, at least a large number of them) with their krum Israeli mindset and mentality. They have brainwashed and inculcated the masses with their stifling and socialist attitudes, way of life, cultural norms (abnormal), krumkeit mentality, azus, dagger in your face approach to others, etc. etc. the whole Israeli crooked mahalach.
Over time, outside influence could lessen their psychological control on society. So they are just stalling for time and possibly plotting more schemes in the meantime.
Hashem won’t let them succeed in their wicked designs.October 26, 2021 1:38 am at 1:38 am #2020718
Shimon > I have always noticed a slight animosity towards frum people from abroad.
I have a picture in my mind that shows the oppiste. It was some time ago, though. Two “frum” anglo kids in Shabbos clothes on the way to kosel play-fight each other. A passer-by local Arab tells them “Do not fight on shabbat”. No animosity at all! The kids stare. I wish the Arab “Shabbat Shalom”, he wishes me.October 26, 2021 7:47 am at 7:47 am #2020756October 26, 2021 9:16 am at 9:16 am #2020811
You remind me of that pasuk in Tehillim
לך עבוד אלהים אחריםOctober 26, 2021 9:24 am at 9:24 am #2020818boruchbrown123Participant
Best stay away if the State of Israel is a on a mission to ‘metamei’ you with their ‘krum mentality’!
Safer to stay in the USA.October 26, 2021 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #2020978ParticipantParticipant
“You could make aliyah”
That is their excuse. So Jews have no birthright to enter the country, but rather to become citizens of the country.
I find in Israel there is animosity toward “frum Anglos,” but [non – frum] Israelis in Chutz Laaretz don’t harbor such animosity towards the frum there.
Which makes sense.October 27, 2021 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm #2021389ZSKParticipant
“I find in Israel there is animosity toward “frum Anglos”.
Total bunk. It’s very clear that most of the folks here don’t interact with the average Israeli. But that’s no surprise considering most of y’all limit yourselves to Anglo areas (i.e. Jerusalem, Bet Shemesh, etc.) and don’t even attempt to venture out to non-Anglo enclaves. Y’all are pontificating based on an abysmal lack of evidence. (After living in Israel for more than a decade, living well outside of what I call the “Anglo Bubble”, I can speak pretty authoritatively about this.)
As for “לך עבוד אלהים אחרים” – I would be smart to “מדבר שקר תרחק” and stop acting like a רוכל and מוציא שם רע with regard to nearly 7-8 million of your fellow Jews.October 27, 2021 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #2021407RomainParticipant
Because of covid isn’t that obviousOctober 27, 2021 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #2021409RomainParticipant
Don’t be an idiate Israel is saving its citizens from covid I myself
Think Israel victimises the frum people but this acustation is redicilousOctober 27, 2021 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #2021412
I have interacted with Israelis probably more than most American bachurim when I was in yeshiva there. I had Israeli roommates, went to Israelis for seudos, made Israeli friends, learned ivrit fluently and got around. Most of ny experiences with Israelis have been very pleasant. That didn’t stop me from picking up nuances from the general public, mostly from chilonim but sometimes frum Israelis too.
Some people just don’t have the ability to recognize good and bad simultaneously. I know, it requires too much mental exertion.
I wasn’t speaking lashon hara. I was talking about the chiloni society, but also mentioned that some of the frum olam has been negatively affected to a certain degree. If you think that’s forbidden to say, then you can never hear tochacha from anyone.
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