What is Torah?

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  • #604232
    pcoz
    Member

    In dinei mamonos we say hamotzi mechaveiro alav harayah – if someone wants to extract money from someone else then they have to bring a clear proof that the money belongs to them.

    The halacha is that even if the person who wants to be motzi the money has a rov in their favour, the nitva can say – hamotzi mechavero alav harayah and I keep the money.

    Reb Shimon (Shaarei Yosher 5:1) asks, why are we not concerned that the nitva, al pi rov, is transgressing an issur of lo signov? The money probably isn’t theirs, so in order to avoid a likely issue genevah they should need to give it to the tovea.

    Reb Shimon answers that in mamonos first we decide who can hold the money rightfully and only then do we apply the issurim and chiyuim of the Torah. To explain by way of example – the gemara initially brings a passuk for the din of hamotzi mechaveiro alav harayah – then the gemara rejects the need for a passuk and says – why do I need a passuk – it’s a sevara – dekoiv lei keiva ozil lebei asya – if you have a pain you go to the doctor – if you have a proof that I need to pay you, I’ll pay, otherwise I won’t.

    Once I have decided al pi sevara who can keep the money – I apply lo signov, lo sigzol etc. This is different to other mitzvos, e.g. parah adumah where all my actions are dictated only by the mitzvas hatorah.

    Another example, migu is not a passuk, nor does it need to be a halacha lemoshe misinai – it is a sevara al pi sechel hayshar who to believe in which case.

    If so, we have the question, that learning nezikin should be bitul torah most of the time becuase we are deciding al pi sechel hayashar who can keep the money and we are not yet discussing the mitzvos hatorah?

    It seems from this that anything that relates to ratzon Hashem is torah.

    Le’moshol, when the chazon ish made calculations regarding kiddush hachodesh and ibur halevana – he was makpid that his maths notes should be put in shemos.

    #887611
    147
    Participant

    What is Torah?

    Answer:- Rav Avigdor Miller ZTKLLH’H defined Torah as “The Blueprint of haShem”.

    #887612
    pcoz
    Member

    The gemara says in Sanhedrin 7a:

    ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ??

    Reb Chaim Schmuelevitz said – this man said something wise and it has become Torah for us (you could make a birchas hatorah on this line of gemara)

    #887613
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The same R’ Avigdor Miller who only spoke Yiddish in the home.

    #887614
    choppy
    Participant

    And the same R’ Avigdor Miller who denounced zionism in no uncertain terms.

    #887615
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Yes, the very same one.

    #887616
    phrum
    Member

    Open your window.

    #887617
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    pcoz, it is Torah to us being that Chazal put their Shtempel on it. If a student says something smart, it will be only be incorporated in the studies if the teacher agrees.

    #887618
    RebRY
    Member

    Rav Miller ZT”Lmwas a true tzadik. The Satmar Ruv ZT”L who was a true tzadik had once said “iz du nor ein ish emes in America Rabeni Avigdor” There is only one ish emes in America Rav Avigdor. unfortunley people who don’t seek authentic Yiddishkeit look down at him as if he was extreme but really they are the problem!

    #887619
    Toi
    Participant

    DY and choppy- this double standard amazes me every time. like the people on here who love to quote the stories of the chazon ish’s gadlus in medicine but get all squirmy when you inform them that he held sheirut liumi is yihureg v’al yaavor.

    #887620
    pcoz
    Member

    HaLevi – arvech arva tzarich – you still haven’t explained why that makes it torah

    #887621

    What makes something “torah” is very simple. Will it fill up the $15 million dollar beit medrash. If yes then yes it is torah and if not it is not torah. Simple. Truth has NOTHING to do with anything

    #887622
    pcoz
    Member

    So you mean it’s a general feel good thing? That sort of fits in with the gemara where you see a ‘life’s like that’ idea is as much Torah as halacha, although not the conventional view

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