December 5, 2012 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #607271
I am devastated to put it lightly.
Ok? Got it? Devastated!
For those of you who know me in this Coffee Room, ..well you should just know one thing. I am devastated. I divorced and I am now only discovering how deep and far and wide my ex spouse’s addictions to the “unlawful” were.
Sure, yeah, He looks frum. acts the part, etc. I myself thought I was married to a real tzaddik. But the things he was up to just haunt me till today, day and night.
How does some one get a taste for evil and that which is unlawful and give themself a heter to continue without wincing? Without reflection or remorse? Is it all just addiction or how does psychopathy come in to the picture, as far as Torah is concerned?
When does sick become evil? Is it just a lack of strength? Does he regret his actions?
I dont know if anyone here or there can ever know the pain of the question WHY WHY WHY that I have and go around with all the time.
But I need some real answers. Please share your insights.December 5, 2012 8:34 pm at 8:34 pm #912619shmoelMember
He is a chola. You wouldn’t blame someone suffering from hallucinations for doing the crazy things they do.
Same idea here.December 5, 2012 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #912620R.T.Participant
Hello “always…fast”. Without getting into details, was your ex abused/bullied as a child? Did he suffer depression?December 5, 2012 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #912621BustercrownParticipant
Hi. If you could be a bit more specific about the kinds of addictions your spouse has, it would be more helpful in others being able to share insights. It sounds as if our spouses may be very alike. I am currently in the process of divorce, and seem to be sharing your questions, doubts, mistrust about the future, and wondering how I will ever be able to have faith in another marriage. I wish you relief from your pain and the ability to move forward and build a new and better life for yourself,December 5, 2012 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #912622🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
always – it’s always nice to hear from you. I really think you should go to guardyoureyes.com. You will read some stuff from others in your shoes, read from men who were in your ex’s shoes, and there is a forum for posting privately with other wives. I think this is definitely not the place where you will get a lot of answers.December 5, 2012 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #912623BaalHaboozeParticipant
ARWSF – It is inexcusable and a crime what your ex-spouse did to you, may Hashem give you strength.
Shmoel: it is part machala, and part weakness.
Torah is THE biggest antidote to one’s Yeitzer Hara. if one is not into torah, he is vulnerable to even the sickest of evils.
Secondly, the Roshei Yeshivas have been screaming the idea till blue in the face, but few listen, and even few act. I am refering to learning mussar. People just aren’t machshiv it, yet this generation of all generations needs it the most.
Does he regret it? I have a feeling that he does. It is an addiction, he most certainly understands that he let it overpower him and ruin his life and his spouses’. He probably WAS a tzaddik, and a wonderful man – and might I add, maybe he still is- but this one area was too overpowering until it spiraled out of control, destroying his life and family.
May Hashem bless you with only happiness in the future and strength to carry on, and to forget the pain of the past.December 5, 2012 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #912624zahavasdadParticipant
I think you need to see a therapist, forget about him YOU need to see one.
I also think you need to try to re-connect with your family, Bridges are never totally burnt. It might be hard, but you never knowDecember 5, 2012 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #912625HealthParticipant
ARWSF -It’s even difficult for therapists to answer this question. Some don’t even try and base their therapy on CBT.
But what I’ve seen is that whatever one spouse’s sickness is – it can be exacerbated from others who don’t know how to deal with it including the spouse and family members.
This is why it’s so important to have a good and competent therapist. Books in No way can be an alternative to real live therapy.December 5, 2012 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #912626
always runs with scissors fast
Firstly let me say that my heart goes out to you. I am very sorry that you have suffered so.
You should know that there are many men and women who have addictions. There are certain people who have “addictive personalities” where it is very easy for them to get addicted to things. There are many things in a persons nature or in their upbringing that can lead one to develop dependencies on drugs, alcohol or other types of addictive substances or behaviors. Once someone is addicted it is very difficult to break out of it. Imagine your worst habit x 1000! Its takes a strong hold on a person and constantly pulls them very often taking over their lives and ruining it. Not everyone succeeds at getting over their addictions.
Dont hate him, he isnt a bad person. He probably did not want to hurt you and likely did not do any of it on purpose and to be malicious. You have no idea how much he battled and hard he probably tried to get out of it. Thats not to say that it makes him not responsible for the pain he caused you, he is very much responsible but at the same time in a way he is like a choleh who couldnt help themselves. Addiction can literally take away a persons bechira.December 6, 2012 1:33 am at 1:33 am #912627BustercrownParticipant
Which leads one to the question of, how can Hashem give a person a Nisayon/challenge he can’t overcome?December 6, 2012 1:39 am at 1:39 am #912628funnyboneParticipant
Always: You have our sympathy.
You don’t need answers; you didn’t do anything wrong. Why your husband did? His problem, it has nothing to do with you. You only need answers when you do something wrong to understand why you did it and how you can fix it. We each have our own yetzer hora and no one can understand someone else’s addictions. Our only job is to better understand our own problems and addictions.
Where do you go from here? B”H I have no idea, but I can tell you that it will take time.
Take the time to heal. Definitely connect with people who have been in your shoes, keep yourself busy and make some time for yourself. Bond with family and friends. Good luck.December 6, 2012 4:27 am at 4:27 am #912629
Every addiction starts out as a bad habit. It is only through repeating that bad habit and allowing it to become ingrained that makes it an addiction and very difficult to change. People can get over addictions. But it takes a lot of therapy hard work, dedication planning support and what not. The addicted person must get that awareness that he is ruining himself utterly and completely and then can begin the long road to recovery. So basically Hashem challenges you with the first drink gamble whatever, 2nd 3rd..and if the person doesn’t stop him or herself it snowballs. Hashem didn’t do this to him, he did it to himself by repeating the negative action to the point of addiction. What he should have done is realize hey I am very strongly pulled to this thing almost like a magnet. I better set up gedarim to protect myself so that I don’t get caught up in this behavior. But sadly most people think they will never get addicted. Like the 20+ year smokers who still think and say that they can quit at anytime. Yeah right. Well that’s basically your answer, Hashem didn’t do it, the person used their bechira to make negative choices and repeated it to the point of addiction.December 6, 2012 7:44 am at 7:44 am #912630rebdonielMember
The sexual impulse is sadly very strong, which is why we put so many gedarim around these matters, with shmiras haenayim, shmiras negiah, etc.
I can only imagine the pain of dealing with this situation.
I posted a while back about knowing about illness in a situation involving an ex, and I am glad I did what a poseq told me and reported it to family members.
Healing and forgiveness will take a while, but this seems like someone who cannot control his te’evos. People with addictions are neurologically-damaged to an extent. Much research has been done on brain abnormalities in people with impulsivity issues.
The temptation of dirty images and websites is very strong and it is a yetzer that burns with rage and fury, r”‘l.December 6, 2012 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #912631🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Well Informed PostDecember 6, 2012 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #912632oomisParticipant
My deepest sympathy to you. I would point out, though, that when one suffers from a true addiction, though they must be held accountable to a degree for their actions, the addiction controls them and not vice versa.
I do not, nevertheless, believe that addiction is a disease, in spite of what the AMA would have us say politically correctly. It is not a disease to smoke that first marijuana cigarette, or swallow that first amphetamine. It may be that one person’s body reacts more quickly addictively to a drug than another, and maybe one person can metabolize alcohol more easily than another, but NO ONE FORCES ANYONE TO ABUSE ALCOHOL AND DRUGS. Ditto for internet inappropriate websites.
The only person who has my rachmonus is one who becomes addicted to painkillers while suffering after an accident or serious illness. For them it starts out innocently. But as soon as their behavior reflects ill purpose, there the pity stops.
I don’t know what your ex was addicted to, but whatever it was, it ruined your marriage and gave you great agmas nefesh, and for that I am so saddened.December 6, 2012 11:16 pm at 11:16 pm #912633
WIY, excuse me but I think you are the smartest person on the internet I have ever met. so please explain what can I do to try to bring a person out of denial and into a head space precipitating the event of awareness where they are ready to admit they need help?
Basically i do daven for him, but I also call and cheppen him, always saying things like “dont lose your olam haba….at least go get help”. But he is totally not ready to come anywhere to admitting.December 7, 2012 1:16 am at 1:16 am #912634fedex11204Member
Who did he abuse …was it some one close to youDecember 7, 2012 3:09 am at 3:09 am #912636147Participant
I think you need to see a therapist, forget about him YOU need to see one.
You “always runs with scissors fast” don’t need a therapist; All you need is a loving & decent spouse, and get yourself back into a good & normal & happy marriage, and this will be a far healthier potion for you, than all the therapists in the world combined together.December 7, 2012 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #912637
Thanks for the compliment. If he is divorced and still doesn’t realize what he has done to himself I don’t know what to tell you. You can try talking to him and pointing out to him how he has changed over the years and gone from a moral upstanding yorei shomayim who took his yiddishkeit seriously and was close to Hashem to doing what he is doing. Point out how this dirties his neshama how it ruins his personality and how it affected how he feels about himself and how he relates to others. Explain how it brings depression sadness and how it has robbed him of his potential and of his time and peace of mind. Maybe he had certain goals and dreams that he wanted to pursue but ruined it with his addiction. Point out what it did to the marriage, and how he could have been so happy and fulfilled. Point out what it has done to the kids (if there are any I dont know how long you were married and if you have children) He has to realize what he has lost. Think it all through and have it organized when you choose to talk to him about it. I think if you present all of it ye can’t fail to see what he has done. However that still doesn’t mean he will hit that point inside that he chooses to really change. You won’t like this but they say that most addicts don’t decide to change until they hit rock bottom. Meaning his life will mamish have to be lousy lousy lousy to the point of total misery for it to hurt him enough to want to change. Like he will have to lose his job and be broke and whatever…or like get sick from it or something extreme. Like I said above if getting divorced didn’t stop him then he’s pretty glued to this thing. So I dont know what it would take…
Maybe part of his issue is he doesnt want to admit he needs to change because he doesn’t believe he can change. Or that it is possible to change. I think he needs to understand that he can change and there is hope So you should try getting hold of some numbers of top therapists that deal with this addiction and maybe also have a Rav talk to him and let him know he is not alone and many have gone through what he is going through and have gone to therapy and changed and turned it all around and he can do it to. He can have his life back and have his freedom back. He doesn’t have to live like a prisoner chained to his addiction. Hopefully the Rav should be able to convince him to seek help.December 7, 2012 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #912638HealthParticipant
OOmis -“My deepest sympathy to you. I would point out, though, that when one suffers from a true addiction, though they must be held accountable to a degree for their actions, the addiction controls them and not vice versa.
I do not, nevertheless, believe that addiction is a disease, in spite of what the AMA would have us say politically correctly. It is not a disease to smoke that first marijuana cigarette, or swallow that first amphetamine. It may be that one person’s body reacts more quickly addictively to a drug than another, and maybe one person can metabolize alcohol more easily than another, but NO ONE FORCES ANYONE TO ABUSE ALCOHOL AND DRUGS. Ditto for internet inappropriate websites.”
I think that Toeiva being classified as Not a Mental illness was based on PC, nothing else.
What kind of education do you have to proclaim that these are Not Illnesses?
I don’t think you have the foggiest idea what a Mental Illness is, quite frankly!
With people like you – we Frum Jews will never stop Stigmatizing Mentally Ill people!
Just FYI, noone claimed that first or first few whatever was part of the illness, e/o knows that was just s/o not controlling themselves.December 7, 2012 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #912639
Btw you said you are divorced yet you say you always call him? If you divorced him then that’s it you should move on. You seem to be very attached to him still which I don’t think is good for you because it may stop you from moving on with your life. He chose to mess up his life and make bad choices it his his problem. His siblings and parents should deal with him. He is no longer your spouse and no longer your responsibility. You need to face the possibility that it may take him years to get out of this depending on how long it has been going on. Don’t wait around for him to get help and change. You owe it to yourself to move on and remarry. You can try one time like I wrote above to get him to see reality. But if he doesn’t want to see it then just leave him alone. Addicts live in denial so you will be wasting your time.December 12, 2012 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #912640
thanks guys for all the support Especially WIY,,,the most sensible person I’ve ever “met” online. I love hearing from you. Are you male or female? You sure are as smart as a talmid chachim. SO…are you married…lol?
By the way everyone…please have me in mind in your tefillas as I am seeing shidichim soon. B’hatzlocha v’brochaDecember 12, 2012 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #912641
always runs with scissors fast
Male and single. And not as smart as Id like to be 🙂December 13, 2012 2:15 am at 2:15 am #912642
Oh and you are welcome! I am glad I could be of help to you.
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