July 27, 2012 3:40 am at 3:40 am #888397interjectionParticipant
Or just marry someone who’s growing. You don’t have to compare who is frummer now because you know it’s a work in progress.July 27, 2012 4:09 am at 4:09 am #888398
A friend of mine who has dated more than I have told me he’s spoken to many great girls that can’t find a shidduch because they have a “checklist” of very specific things that they’re looking for, and that so many girls insist that they must have every aspect of their checklist fulfilled before they’re happy with their potential shidduch. Is this true? He says, generally, boys are more ready to compromise, but that seminaries indoctrinate girls that “they deserve” the best shidduch possible, so all these girls go for months and months without dating because the guy doesn’t fit their “checklist”. He claims this might be part of the cause for the Great Shidduch Recession.July 27, 2012 6:24 am at 6:24 am #888399
curiosity-i agree 100 % about the whole shpiel/megilla u wrote about the kollel thing and i would add to it the concept of yissacher and zevulan that some ppl learn and some ppl. work so that they can help each other out . one financially and one spiritually to get some of their zchus of limud torah!!July 27, 2012 6:46 am at 6:46 am #888400
There are girls with checklists and there are girls without.but if a girl met someone who she liked and everything was going well i x think she would think i must hav everything on my checklist.i know of someone who did not want to marry a guy with a beard but guess what? she ended up marrying a guy with a beard. so thats an external thing and not part of his personality ,but i think unless its something really major, she would feel like she x need everything on her list .There are some ppl with their lists that get everything and are happy but there are alot of ppl who have to give in to some things and not get theyre perfect shidduch. Ultimatly hashem knows who our bashert is and what type of person is good for us. hopefully when someones bashert comes along they x turn them down bec theyr not evrything on theyre checklist especially if theyre checklist consists of petty things like someone tall,rich….. that they think is good for them.i never heard of seminaries telling girls that!July 27, 2012 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #888402mw13Participant
I’m sorry, I accidentally posted this under someone else’s username (long story)… mods, could you please erase that last comment?
“It’s possible for a person to be a CEO, or an electrician, or a garbage collector and still have a seat right next to Rebbi Akiva in Olam Haba.”
Possible? Yes. Likely? Not by a long shot.
“but that seminaries indoctrinate girls that “they deserve” the best shidduch possible”
Honestly, I believe that this attitude is one of the primary factors in most of the problems we have today. Shidduch crisis? The boy thinks he “deserves” full support, looks, etc, the girl thinks she “deserves” her checklist. Divorces skyrocketing? Everyone thinks they “deserve”, and therefore wrongly expects, to automatically be completely and thoroughly happy, always. Parnasa? Everyone believes they “deserve” to live their lives in comfort and style, regardless of whether they can pay for it or not. I don’t think this attitude of entitlement is a problem that starts or ends with seminaries and shidduchim; I think it’s from the biggest and most wide-ranging issues that this generation faces.July 27, 2012 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #888403
It is amazing to see how so many people know so much about the topic of dating. People tried giving me their 10 cents, there are so many opinions as to what should be done in a dating scenario/career it sounds like it should be different for each person.
Bottom line is curiosity just be yourself and forget these stereotypical in the box brainwashed girls who, awesome quote from before “rochel emainu” girls. Don’t think that the only frum girls want kollel. My experience and I just got engaged last month after a somewhat interesting career of dating there are plenty of nice frum girls who do not necessarily want that greasy kollel guy. Like my username says He is the most important factor in your shidduch and ignore everyone else(including myself :0). She is out there the non brainwashed and non kollel interested girl who is frum and right for you. So says the good Lord.
Btw who determines what the best shidduch is?July 27, 2012 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #888404
Oh and for the record I thought 10 cents was better than 2 :). I was going to put a dollar but don’t have that much.July 29, 2012 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #888405
“Don’t forget the one above” hopefully you will be blessed with many dollars to give. I was just watching a video of a tisha b’av speech earlier today (fast ended here already), and after the rabbi finished talking some guy in the audience with a thick Russian accent took the mic and started talking about something he learned, and at the end he said “I just thought i’d throw in my twenty cents.” I was trying so hard not to laugh… But I failed.
Mazal tov on your engagement!July 29, 2012 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #888406
” “It’s possible for a person to be a CEO, or an electrician, or a garbage collector and still have a seat right next to Rebbi Akiva in Olam Haba.”
Possible? Yes. Likely? Not by a long shot.”
That’s exactly my point, mw13. We can’t judge anyone, you don’t know anybody’s nisyonos and upbringing. You can’t say whether it’s likely or not because you haven’t been to shamayim and taken a census of who is sitting next to R’ Akiva. Saying it’s not likely isn’t something that you can say with any certainty. It’s just an assumption built on your premise that everyone has the same level of challenges as you do, and that every individual’s potential is more or less the same. I believe in psychology that’s called “projecting”. It all goes according to one’s potential which is something only Hashem knows (and to some degree the individual too).July 29, 2012 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #888407
mw13: I forgot to mention, I do agree with you regarding the whole entitlement problem. That’s the yetzer hara hachitzioni. We live in a time where “keeping up with the Joneses” is something that’s almost inevitable, to some extent. Nobody wants to be an outcast of society by only living off the basics. This wasn’t as big of a nisayon back in the day when living off the basics WAS society.July 29, 2012 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #888408No One Mourns The WickedMember
“It’s probably cus I’m from “oot”, and wouldn’t ever agree to live the big city life. My gut tells me living somewhere that actually has girls to date is very conducive to dating… May you and your family be mevorach. “
OOT? Even better! Come to NY, they’ll be plenty of girls who’d want to date you.July 29, 2012 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #888409
So, I know there are countless posts regarding the issue, and it’s one that many people feel very strongly about, but I think it’s an interesting topic. I have yet to hear an answer that is logical, most are just emotional terutzim. Ready for it?…. What do you think regarding giving/asking for a photograph for a first date.
The way I see it is, a husband HAS to be attracted to his wife, and vice versa. It’s a waste of time, money, and emotions for both parties if they never make it to a second date because one isn’t attracted to the other. That being said, some people don’t really need much on the physical side to make them attracted to someone else, as their nature of attraction is just more personality-centric. These people, may not even ask to see a picture, which is fine. I think those that do ask for a picture are not “shallow” like some people may say, but they just want to save themselves and the other person the trouble. The fact that they arent able to develop an attraction to someone who isn’t physically appealing to them is not their fault, it’s just how they are hardwired. Just like some people are visual/tactile learners, and others are audio learners. It’s the way our brains work. I don’t understand the stigma against asking to see a photograph of a person before a date. I’ve read some comments that people wrote that “how could someone who learns about not looking at girls ask to look at a girl?” This is baseless because in this case it’s a mitzvah to look and see if you are potentially attracted. Isn’t there some chazal about how one should look at his kallah before the marriage to make sure she’s appealing to him?
Does anyone have a logical angle on why it’s not right to ask for a picture?July 29, 2012 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #888410
because some people are not photogenic they can be gorgeous in person but in a picture theyre eyes come out too red theyre face looks too bright …… so if a guy sees a picture of them and they didnt come out good then they might just say shes not for me but if they met her they would think otherwise. also when someone meets a person they get to see theyre personality and looks its a whole package so they might feel differntly once they meet. I kno of someone who heard that a boy had buck teeth and his eyes had some problem with them that they didnt look directly at the person like croos eyed but she decided to give it a chance and once she met him she liked his personality that the looks didnt matter as much and today they are bh happily marriedJuly 29, 2012 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #888411
Princess, that’s a good point. I’m not very photogenic, unless I’m caught off guard. I’m not so good at “posing” for pics Haha. I think it’s different for boys though, because looks aren’t as a big of a priority for most girl as they are for guys… At least that’s what people say. Girls are generally more emotional than boys are. At the end of the day, I guess it’s a cost-benefit decision that each person has to make for themselves.July 29, 2012 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #888412wallflowerParticipant
@Don’t Forget the One Above: You have no business collectively referring to all kollel guys as “greasy.” It’s the Nine Days. Cool your jets.July 30, 2012 12:57 am at 12:57 am #888413
Wallflower- I think she meant “not everybody wants a greasy kollel guy” as referring to the opposite end of the spectrum. NOT that every kollel guy is greasy.July 30, 2012 5:01 am at 5:01 am #888414
For those people with more experience than myself in this topic (which, as of now, would mean any experience at all)… On a shidduch date, how does one draw the line between being friendly, and being TOO friendly?
I would really appreciate input because I don’t really know many experienced ppl whom I’m comfortable asking.July 30, 2012 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #888415
good question i x have an answer bec i x hav experience either yet but here are some books with helpful tips i read – i only want to get married once by chana levitan and riding the waves by tamar anshJuly 30, 2012 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #888416mw13Participant
“We can’t judge anyone, you don’t know anybody’s nisyonos and upbringing. You can’t say whether it’s likely or not because you haven’t been to shamayim and taken a census of who is sitting next to R’ Akiva. Saying it’s not likely isn’t something that you can say with any certainty.”
True, one should never be judgmental because we can never know what somebody’s situation truly is. However, your post seemed to insinuate that one could get to the same place in olam haba by trying to be a businessman who keeps the halacha as someone trying to become the Godol Hador. And that’s simply not true.
All I was saying is that if you try to become (the wife of) a Rosh Yeshiva, the odds of you ending up in Olam Haba are much larger than if you set out to be (the wife of a) businessman.
“I do agree with you regarding the whole entitlement problem.”
Thank you.July 31, 2012 12:29 am at 12:29 am #888417
mw13 – you’re welcome.
That’s not what I meant. One shouldn’t TRY to be a businessman or a rosh yeshiva. One should TRY to do whatever the ratzon Hashem is for themselves. Whether that ends up being a rosh yeshiva or a businessman is irrelevant to their reward in Olam Haba, as long as they honestly followed ratzon Hashem in choosing their life path.
Same thing for a lady. She shouldn’t TRY to marry a rosh yeshiva or TRY to marry a businessman. She should TRY to do the ratzon Hashem. That means supporting Torah as much as she can. If making the sacrifices necessary in marrying a rosh yeshiva also means being miserable for her, then the ratzon Hashem for her is to NOT marry a rosh yeshiva. Maybe it’s to marry a rebbe or shul rabbi who has a guaranteed salary. Maybe it’s in marrying a businessman. She can support Torah in other ways, and still be a happy, functional, tzadeikes and eved Hashem, without marrying the gadol hador.
To often do we focus on ideals that don’t necessarily apply to us, and lose focus of the main picture which DOES apply to us. We aren’t here to learn Torah. We aren’t here to do mitzvos. We aren’t here to be happy. We are here to do the ratzon Hashem – which happens to be learning Torah, doing mitzvos, and being happy.May 23, 2017 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #1283475rebshidduchParticipant
There are many great girls who want guys who want to learn and work.May 23, 2017 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #1283540JosephParticipant
How do you know whether those girls are great?May 23, 2017 7:01 pm at 7:01 pm #1283950Lilmod UlelamaidParticipant
because she’s one of them!
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