January 25, 2023 11:33 am at 11:33 am #2159422
Hey guys, haven’t been here for a while I’m back on for an extended off-shabbos.
As someone who lives in E. Israel here is What really needs doing in E. Israel
Let’s forget about the Norwegian Law and Deri – obviously it’s very good but it doesn’t really help the average Joe.
The first thing that needs doing is to BUILD. But like really. really BUILD. Maybe 50000 apartments. maybe more. This is undoubtedly the simplest thing necessary for the average guy.
The second thing that needs doing is serious improvements in transport. Which other OECD country has traffic lights on the main roads between the biggest cities? one lane roads leading to major towns?
Here is what needs doing
a) building and OPENING a TWO or THREE lane road from Har Chotzvim to Ramat Shlomo. [This alone will immediately affect the exorbitant rental prices in the main part of Yerushalayim.]
b) building a TWO or THREE lane road direct from Yerushalayim to Bet Shemesh and the South. At the present moment one has to first travel NORTH-WEST on highway 1 to reach Beit Shemesh, Ashdod, Beer Sheva etc …. [besides for saving time, gas, travel expenses, and making houses in these places far more attractive to live, a side benefit – this will have a major influence on traffic at the current entrance to Yerushalayim.]
c) building and OPENING a TWO or THREE lane road from kiryat Sefer to the Highway 443 – instead of the current one lane road
d) getting rid of the traffic lights, and inserting SOLUTIONS by the entrance to Givat sha’ul -which will include the option for one to go directly from Givat Sha’ul on to the Begin Road in either direction. Ditto by Shmuel Hanavi Bar Ilan, and all the further intersections leading to Ramot and along the entire 443 highway. Ditto for Sderot Eshkol /Eretz chaifetz, the entrance to B’nei Berak/ Givat Shmuel, and in Beit Shemesh by the junction of the 38 and 3855 – and many mnay other places
e) the Highway 90 – expanding to two or three lanes in each direction. [this will enable access to Beit she’an and Teverya which both offer far cheaper housing options, offer people who are prepard to travel more options of competition and better prices, and will take a small amount of the traffic to Karmiel and Tzefas off the highways 1 and 6]
f) installing a trolley system in the Israel train services. At the present time there is no way to take a luggage cart from the airport to the train or in the Jerusalem station. Simply installing such a system will make life much easier for international travelers and cut back on the traffic on the Highway no 1.
g) increasing public trasport options between Kiryat Sefer and Beitar and the tows which are further. [This will benefit everyone tremendously, and allow businesses in these places to attract customers etc … encourage their children to be able live in the north or South]
all these ideas, if implemented would be of literally UNLIMITED toi’eles harabbim
If anyone is ready to meet up with me with a few spades and start digging we are set. Alternatively maybe someone can simply publish this in a more formal think tank …..January 25, 2023 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #2159522Shimon NodelParticipant
You seem to be under the illusion that only chareidim existJanuary 25, 2023 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #2159501GadolhadorahParticipant
Zushy: Really good ideas. Several of these projects (some in slightly different configuration) have been included in the long-term capital budget for years, but have been deferred over and over for lack of funding and then Covid. When a project is finally given the NIS and authorization to proceed, they then have to navigate multiple obstacles from (i) nutcases on the right claiming the construction will traverse through an area with kevorim (even though the rabbonim and secular experts have concluded the opposite) and the nutcases from the left claiming that the surviving population of some nearly extinct bug is living in the path of the new road.January 25, 2023 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #2159602n0mesorahParticipant
You seem to be under the Chareidi that only illusions exist.January 25, 2023 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #2159627
Shimon Nodel @ YWN coffeeroom
I am not under the illusion that only chareidim exist
I am under the extremely true fact that many many people Charedim and otherwise would benefit massively from easier access on the main roads and interstate highways and everyone would gain tremendously if Teveria, Beit She’an and Ashdod would be far more accessible – all three are major cities.
Additionally, like it or not, 20 or 25 % of the country are chareidim, and 50% of immigrants and 70 % of tourists. They say a rising tide lifts all boats, surely basic infrastructure to benefit a massive part of the population and tourists will benefit anyone.
In fact, with respect, you seem to be under an illusion in assuming – as the previous government did- that ignoring Chareidi needs will help the rest of the population. In fact in is remarkably non sensical to imagine that denying chareidim basic infrastructure helps anyone at all.
The biggest illusion is imagining that Charedim are treated as equal citizens. There is no other settlement the size of Kiryat Sefer which can only be accessed by a one lane road.
Let’s not forget with all of Lapid’s noise about non working chareidim, allowing more access to housing jobs and education – and allowing more to reach and benefit from home based businesses and services will undoubtedly help everyone.
One additional idea that I forgot to mention:
On the red line of the light rail a stop outside Zevill – Mir would benefit everyone. Although many people exist besides for charedim, the fact that five thousand plus learn nad work around the mir surely requires some basic consideration.January 25, 2023 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #2159747ujmParticipant
Zushy, what I don’t understand, and perhaps you or others can explain, is that the Chareidi parties of UTJ and Shas have been in almost every Netanyahu government. And Netanyahu has been running the Israeli government for the last 11 straight years, except for about one year.
With the Chareidi parties part of the Netanyahu governments, why haven’t the Chareidi parties have gotten all those issues you mentioned above fixed under Netanyahu?
And if they haven’t, why do they keep supporting and joining Netanyahu?January 26, 2023 7:01 am at 7:01 am #2159781takahmamashParticipant
Zushy, I’m curious. Where is all the money coming from to implement your plans?January 26, 2023 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #2159837Shimon NodelParticipant
Why all the paranoia and self righteous indignation? I never said anything anti chareidi or even brought up the subject. I myself identify with chareidim.
I just thought that the OP’s post seemed to be focused only on chareidi related infrastructure, and it appears to be oblivious to everything else. Chareidim are not 20% of the country, it is about 12% so it’s a little weird to be expecting all thisJanuary 26, 2023 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #2159932Zaphod BeeblebroxParticipant
Two things: first of all, there are currently TWO light rail stations in close proximity to zhvill-mir, namely the shimon hatzadik and shivtei Yisrael stations. Adding another station at the midway way point would cause a tremendous time waster for everyone.
Second: your whole thing is that the Israeli government should take the transportation needs of chareidim into account. But they are currently trying to build a light rail line through bar Ilan, which would make transportation in a predominantly chareidi area exponentially easier, and they have been met with nothing but anger and protesting throughout the process. So why would they go out of their way to try and make transportation easier for a community that clearly would rather not have it?January 26, 2023 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #2159991
I honestly believe that the basic investment will pay off, both in local productivity and in tourism
Anyway, how much would it cost to install a light rail station near the mir – the train passes there anywhere, and luggage carts on the train system They are nayway building a one lane road to Ramat Shlomo, how much extra does a two lane road cost
They invested a fortune in widening the highway no 1 from two lanes to three – it would have SAVED money long term to go straight to four lanes, instead of redoing it again in five years.
UJM, the ministers approach the government as schnorrers rather than as partners, like the holy tanna R’ Yochanan asked Vespanian, they ask for יבנה וחכמיה plea for a no increase in חילול שבת chalila, and ask for kosher phones and kashrus and yuchsin.
These things really need doing, but R’ Gershon shlit”a gave strict instructions that רוחניות overrides גשמיותJanuary 26, 2023 5:46 pm at 5:46 pm #2159997ParticipantParticipant
They need to bump their speed limits up—the highest it gets, on a freeway, is 110 kmh. An average city street is 40 kmh.
Some streets should certainly have such limits–the two-lane curvy roads with space for one car and maybe a pedestrian–but many streets could be higher.
And the ridiculous speed bumps every 3 meters, which breaks the wheels unless you’re driving half the speed limit……January 26, 2023 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #2160028
Neither are next to the mir, both are a five minute walk. They definitely should have taken the mir into account – it’s the biggest place in ….
The light rail might be a solution HOWEVER they admit themselves that they planned it when the city population was FIVE million, and they do not expect it to be ready before the city hits TEN million.
Leaving the protests out, the entire Bar ilan / yinrmiyahu is steadilt ebing renovated with high rise buildings, as is the parrallel Rechov Petach Tikva, and the population in these places is tripling – and these people are primarily car owners.
Taking into account transpratation needs of a major part of the population should be a basic requirement for any governemtn.
really sorry if I wrote anything hurtful, please be moichel.
Chareidim currently consist of 12% of voters, there are widely considered to be three more seats of approx 30- 40,000 votes. [Eitz, Chutnikim, and Yerushalmi] although this cannot be proven. Additioanlly over 25 % of underage citizens are enrolled in chareidi education. It’s still 17 or 18% rather than the twenty I quoted.
My own opinion, and opening post was based on a simple premise that helping the transporattion system will benefit everyone.January 26, 2023 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #2160044Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
We read in another thread that charedim do not need no state and no taxes, and in another thread that charedim do not need no education because they are successful businessmen. So, just call your baalei tzedoka and start these worthy infrastructure projects.January 27, 2023 5:48 am at 5:48 am #2160084s1234567Participant
sorry zushy, but most people who live in the rommema part of yirmiyahu dont have their own carsJanuary 27, 2023 5:57 am at 5:57 am #2160116
I bear no responsibility or any opinions expressed on this forum.
As written in my previous post there were 670,000 votes for the frum parties -these are all tax paying voting, etc …..
There are another massive amount of non-voters, some of who are serious kana’im. Mny estimates suggest that there 100,000 plus.
The role of education and business needs more serious discussion. there are many many points that need discussing, maybe a different threadJanuary 29, 2023 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #2160590takahmamashParticipant
Zushy, while I appreciate the effort it took to answer my question, like a politician, you didn’t answer my question: where is all the money going to come from to pay for all this?
And Participant, there’s no need to raise the speed limit on Kvish 6, because nobody drives that speed anyway. I drove to Yerushalayim and back today, and my cruising speed on Kvish 6 from Beersheva to Soreq was 120, and there were many cars passing me.
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